Problems with Manchester OWL Editor

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Problems with Manchester OWL Editor

Guillermo Garcia
Person and name value "Peter Parker"
where
   Person -> FOAF ontology Class
   name -> FOAF ontology Data Property
   "Peter Parker" -> Literal

But the query editor doesnt let me execute the query because he cant resolve the conflict between the "name" Data property and the "name" Object Property (both define en FOAF ontology). The Editor always think that name is the Object Property and due to that, I cant put a Literal as part of the query.

This is a name scope bug? or there is a way to solve this using the syntax of the query language (like prefixs, for exemple)?


--
Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
        www.ggarciao.com


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Re: Problems with Manchester OWL Editor

Timothy Redmond

There is an OWL api gforge out for this item [1].   Unfortunately I don't know a way around this at the moment.  Also for various reasons it might be a difficult bug to fix.  Your idea of changing the renderer would probably work but I don't think that there is one that would currently help. 

-Timothy

[1] http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2947144&group_id=90989&atid=595534


On 11/19/2010 03:21 AM, Guillermo Garcia wrote:
Person and name value "Peter Parker"
where
   Person -> FOAF ontology Class
   name -> FOAF ontology Data Property
   "Peter Parker" -> Literal

But the query editor doesnt let me execute the query because he cant resolve the conflict between the "name" Data property and the "name" Object Property (both define en FOAF ontology). The Editor always think that name is the Object Property and due to that, I cant put a Literal as part of the query.

This is a name scope bug? or there is a way to solve this using the syntax of the query language (like prefixs, for exemple)?


--
Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
        www.ggarciao.com

_______________________________________________ protege-owl mailing list [hidden email] https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl Instructions for unsubscribing: http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03


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Re: Problems with Manchester OWL Editor

Alan Ruttenberg-2
In reply to this post by Guillermo Garcia
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Guillermo Garcia
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Person and name value "Peter Parker"
> where
>    Person -> FOAF ontology Class
>    name -> FOAF ontology Data Property
>    "Peter Parker" -> Literal
> But the query editor doesnt let me execute the query because he cant resolve
> the conflict between the "name" Data property and the "name" Object Property
> (both define en FOAF ontology).

Where are these both defined in foaf? The documentation says the range
is a literal. In the RDF I see:

  <rdf:Property rdf:about="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name"
vs:term_status="testing" rdfs:label="name" rdfs:comment="A name for
some thing.">
    <rdf:type rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#DatatypeProperty"/>
    <rdfs:domain rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing"/>
    <rdfs:range rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Literal"/>
    <rdfs:isDefinedBy rdf:resource="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"/>
    <rdfs:subPropertyOf
rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label"/>
  </rdf:Property>

-Alan

The Editor always think that name is the

> Object Property and due to that, I cant put a Literal as part of the query.
> This is a name scope bug? or there is a way to solve this using the syntax
> of the query language (like prefixs, for exemple)?
>
> --
> Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>         www.ggarciao.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> protege-owl mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>
> Instructions for unsubscribing:
> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
>
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Re: Problems with Manchester OWL Editor

Guillermo Garcia
I saw it in the protege GUI:

* name is a Data Property with range Literal
* name is also a Object Property, decendent of label Object Property


On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Alan Ruttenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Guillermo Garcia
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Person and name value "Peter Parker"
> where
>    Person -> FOAF ontology Class
>    name -> FOAF ontology Data Property
>    "Peter Parker" -> Literal
> But the query editor doesnt let me execute the query because he cant resolve
> the conflict between the "name" Data property and the "name" Object Property
> (both define en FOAF ontology).

Where are these both defined in foaf? The documentation says the range
is a literal. In the RDF I see:

 <rdf:Property rdf:about="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name"
vs:term_status="testing" rdfs:label="name" rdfs:comment="A name for
some thing.">
   <rdf:type rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#DatatypeProperty"/>
   <rdfs:domain rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing"/>
   <rdfs:range rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Literal"/>
   <rdfs:isDefinedBy rdf:resource="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"/>
   <rdfs:subPropertyOf
rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label"/>
 </rdf:Property>

-Alan

The Editor always think that name is the
> Object Property and due to that, I cant put a Literal as part of the query.
> This is a name scope bug? or there is a way to solve this using the syntax
> of the query language (like prefixs, for exemple)?
>
> --
> Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>         www.ggarciao.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> protege-owl mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>
> Instructions for unsubscribing:
> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
>
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--
Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
   Portable: (+33) 6.59.80.16.78
        www.ggarciao.com


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Re: Problems with Manchester OWL Editor

Gabriel Moser
Hi folks,
One question: is the CHAO ontology available in OWL ?

Tks

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Guillermo Garcia <[hidden email]> wrote:
I saw it in the protege GUI:

* name is a Data Property with range Literal
* name is also a Object Property, decendent of label Object Property


On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Alan Ruttenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Guillermo Garcia
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Person and name value "Peter Parker"
> where
>    Person -> FOAF ontology Class
>    name -> FOAF ontology Data Property
>    "Peter Parker" -> Literal
> But the query editor doesnt let me execute the query because he cant resolve
> the conflict between the "name" Data property and the "name" Object Property
> (both define en FOAF ontology).

Where are these both defined in foaf? The documentation says the range
is a literal. In the RDF I see:

 <rdf:Property rdf:about="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name"
vs:term_status="testing" rdfs:label="name" rdfs:comment="A name for
some thing.">
   <rdf:type rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#DatatypeProperty"/>
   <rdfs:domain rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing"/>
   <rdfs:range rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Literal"/>
   <rdfs:isDefinedBy rdf:resource="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"/>
   <rdfs:subPropertyOf
rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label"/>
 </rdf:Property>

-Alan

The Editor always think that name is the
> Object Property and due to that, I cant put a Literal as part of the query.
> This is a name scope bug? or there is a way to solve this using the syntax
> of the query language (like prefixs, for exemple)?
>
> --
> Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>         www.ggarciao.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> protege-owl mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>
> Instructions for unsubscribing:
> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
>
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--
Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
   Portable: (+33) 6.59.80.16.78
        www.ggarciao.com


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--
Gabriel Moser

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Re: Problems with Manchester OWL Editor

Alan Ruttenberg-2
In reply to this post by Guillermo Garcia
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Guillermo Garcia
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I saw it in the protege GUI:
> * name is a Data Property with range Literal
> * name is also a Object Property, decendent of label Object Property

Can you send me a link to the version you imported? Or the ontology as a whole?
Are you using Protege 3 or Protege 4?
-Alan

>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Alan Ruttenberg <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Guillermo Garcia
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Person and name value "Peter Parker"
>> > where
>> >    Person -> FOAF ontology Class
>> >    name -> FOAF ontology Data Property
>> >    "Peter Parker" -> Literal
>> > But the query editor doesnt let me execute the query because he cant
>> > resolve
>> > the conflict between the "name" Data property and the "name" Object
>> > Property
>> > (both define en FOAF ontology).
>>
>> Where are these both defined in foaf? The documentation says the range
>> is a literal. In the RDF I see:
>>
>>  <rdf:Property rdf:about="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name"
>> vs:term_status="testing" rdfs:label="name" rdfs:comment="A name for
>> some thing.">
>>    <rdf:type
>> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#DatatypeProperty"/>
>>    <rdfs:domain rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing"/>
>>    <rdfs:range
>> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Literal"/>
>>    <rdfs:isDefinedBy rdf:resource="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"/>
>>    <rdfs:subPropertyOf
>> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label"/>
>>  </rdf:Property>
>>
>> -Alan
>>
>> The Editor always think that name is the
>> > Object Property and due to that, I cant put a Literal as part of the
>> > query.
>> > This is a name scope bug? or there is a way to solve this using the
>> > syntax
>> > of the query language (like prefixs, for exemple)?
>> >
>> > --
>> > Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>> >         www.ggarciao.com
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > protege-owl mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>> >
>> > Instructions for unsubscribing:
>> > http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> protege-owl mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>>
>> Instructions for unsubscribing:
>> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
>
>
> --
> Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>    Portable: (+33) 6.59.80.16.78
>         www.ggarciao.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> protege-owl mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>
> Instructions for unsubscribing:
> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
>
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Re: Problems with Manchester OWL Editor

Guillermo Garcia
Sure, 

* Im using protege 4.0.2 - binary version with installer for windows.
* The FOAF ontology uri is: http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/


On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Alan Ruttenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Guillermo Garcia
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I saw it in the protege GUI:
> * name is a Data Property with range Literal
> * name is also a Object Property, decendent of label Object Property

Can you send me a link to the version you imported? Or the ontology as a whole?
Are you using Protege 3 or Protege 4?
-Alan

>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Alan Ruttenberg <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Guillermo Garcia
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Person and name value "Peter Parker"
>> > where
>> >    Person -> FOAF ontology Class
>> >    name -> FOAF ontology Data Property
>> >    "Peter Parker" -> Literal
>> > But the query editor doesnt let me execute the query because he cant
>> > resolve
>> > the conflict between the "name" Data property and the "name" Object
>> > Property
>> > (both define en FOAF ontology).
>>
>> Where are these both defined in foaf? The documentation says the range
>> is a literal. In the RDF I see:
>>
>>  <rdf:Property rdf:about="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name"
>> vs:term_status="testing" rdfs:label="name" rdfs:comment="A name for
>> some thing.">
>>    <rdf:type
>> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#DatatypeProperty"/>
>>    <rdfs:domain rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing"/>
>>    <rdfs:range
>> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Literal"/>
>>    <rdfs:isDefinedBy rdf:resource="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"/>
>>    <rdfs:subPropertyOf
>> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label"/>
>>  </rdf:Property>
>>
>> -Alan
>>
>> The Editor always think that name is the
>> > Object Property and due to that, I cant put a Literal as part of the
>> > query.
>> > This is a name scope bug? or there is a way to solve this using the
>> > syntax
>> > of the query language (like prefixs, for exemple)?
>> >
>> > --
>> > Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>> >         www.ggarciao.com
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > protege-owl mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>> >
>> > Instructions for unsubscribing:
>> > http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> protege-owl mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>>
>> Instructions for unsubscribing:
>> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
>
>
> --
> Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>    Portable: (+33) 6.59.80.16.78
>         www.ggarciao.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> protege-owl mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>
> Instructions for unsubscribing:
> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
>
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--
Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
   Portable: (+33) 6.59.80.16.78
        www.ggarciao.com


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Re: Problems with Manchester OWL Editor

Gabriel Moser
In reply to this post by Gabriel Moser
Please guys,

Do someone have the ChAO (Collaborative Protege) ontology available in OWL ? Thank you!!!

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Gabriel Moser <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi folks,
One question: is the CHAO ontology available in OWL ?

Tks


On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Guillermo Garcia <[hidden email]> wrote:
I saw it in the protege GUI:

* name is a Data Property with range Literal
* name is also a Object Property, decendent of label Object Property


On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Alan Ruttenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Guillermo Garcia
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Person and name value "Peter Parker"
> where
>    Person -> FOAF ontology Class
>    name -> FOAF ontology Data Property
>    "Peter Parker" -> Literal
> But the query editor doesnt let me execute the query because he cant resolve
> the conflict between the "name" Data property and the "name" Object Property
> (both define en FOAF ontology).

Where are these both defined in foaf? The documentation says the range
is a literal. In the RDF I see:

 <rdf:Property rdf:about="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name"
vs:term_status="testing" rdfs:label="name" rdfs:comment="A name for
some thing.">
   <rdf:type rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#DatatypeProperty"/>
   <rdfs:domain rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing"/>
   <rdfs:range rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Literal"/>
   <rdfs:isDefinedBy rdf:resource="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"/>
   <rdfs:subPropertyOf
rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label"/>
 </rdf:Property>

-Alan

The Editor always think that name is the
> Object Property and due to that, I cant put a Literal as part of the query.
> This is a name scope bug? or there is a way to solve this using the syntax
> of the query language (like prefixs, for exemple)?
>
> --
> Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>         www.ggarciao.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> protege-owl mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>
> Instructions for unsubscribing:
> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
>
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--
Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
   Portable: (+33) 6.59.80.16.78
        www.ggarciao.com


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--
Gabriel Moser



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Re: Problems with Manchester OWL Editor

Alan Ruttenberg-2
In reply to this post by Guillermo Garcia
All right. I see what you see (you need to update to protege 4.1, btw
- 4.02 is obsolete)
This issue exposes several bugs.

Here is the offending clause:

  <rdf:Property rdf:about="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name"
vs:term_status="testing" rdfs:label="name" rdfs:comment="A name for
some thing.">
    <rdf:type rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#DatatypeProperty"/>
    <rdfs:domain rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing"/>
    <rdfs:range rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Literal"/>
    <rdfs:isDefinedBy rdf:resource="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"/>
    <rdfs:subPropertyOf
rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label"/>
  </rdf:Property>

1) The foaf file is not valid OWL-DL (nor does it claim to be). In
OWL, rdfs:label is an annotation property. As name is a datatype
property. Datatype properties can't be subproperty of annotation
property. The tool is not telling you that.

2) Even though rdfs:label is nowhere declared to be an object
property, protege/owlapi is deciding it is one.

3) Having decided it is one, since name is a subproperty of label, it
is deciding it too is an object property.

4) Properties can't be both object and data properties in OWL DL. The
tool is not telling you that.

5) Worse, you can actually use the property as both a data property
and an object property and none of the reasoners will complain.
(attached file).

I'm ccing this to Matthew Horridge, who writes the OWLAPI, and to the
reasoner developers as well. Hopefully between them and Tim they will
figure out what's broken where and repair this.

Unfortunately, if you want to use foaf in OWL DL, then you must either
petition the developers to make one that is OWL DL compatible (not
hard - I could help) or simply selected terms you want to use within
protege. You can set the URI of a term using the Refactor>Change
entity URI after you define a property to set its URI to the foaf URI.

Tim, the Gforge item isn't relevant here, as this isn't a valid case of punning.

-Alan


On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Guillermo Garcia
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sure,
> * Im using protege 4.0.2 - binary version with installer for windows.
> * The FOAF ontology uri is: http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Alan Ruttenberg <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Guillermo Garcia
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > I saw it in the protege GUI:
>> > * name is a Data Property with range Literal
>> > * name is also a Object Property, decendent of label Object Property
>>
>> Can you send me a link to the version you imported? Or the ontology as a
>> whole?
>> Are you using Protege 3 or Protege 4?
>> -Alan
>>
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Alan Ruttenberg
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Guillermo Garcia
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> > Person and name value "Peter Parker"
>> >> > where
>> >> >    Person -> FOAF ontology Class
>> >> >    name -> FOAF ontology Data Property
>> >> >    "Peter Parker" -> Literal
>> >> > But the query editor doesnt let me execute the query because he cant
>> >> > resolve
>> >> > the conflict between the "name" Data property and the "name" Object
>> >> > Property
>> >> > (both define en FOAF ontology).
>> >>
>> >> Where are these both defined in foaf? The documentation says the range
>> >> is a literal. In the RDF I see:
>> >>
>> >>  <rdf:Property rdf:about="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name"
>> >> vs:term_status="testing" rdfs:label="name" rdfs:comment="A name for
>> >> some thing.">
>> >>    <rdf:type
>> >> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#DatatypeProperty"/>
>> >>    <rdfs:domain rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing"/>
>> >>    <rdfs:range
>> >> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Literal"/>
>> >>    <rdfs:isDefinedBy rdf:resource="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"/>
>> >>    <rdfs:subPropertyOf
>> >> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label"/>
>> >>  </rdf:Property>
>> >>
>> >> -Alan
>> >>
>> >> The Editor always think that name is the
>> >> > Object Property and due to that, I cant put a Literal as part of the
>> >> > query.
>> >> > This is a name scope bug? or there is a way to solve this using the
>> >> > syntax
>> >> > of the query language (like prefixs, for exemple)?
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>> >> >         www.ggarciao.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > protege-owl mailing list
>> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>> >> >
>> >> > Instructions for unsubscribing:
>> >> > http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> protege-owl mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>> >>
>> >> Instructions for unsubscribing:
>> >> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>> >    Portable: (+33) 6.59.80.16.78
>> >         www.ggarciao.com
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > protege-owl mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>> >
>> > Instructions for unsubscribing:
>> > http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> protege-owl mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>>
>> Instructions for unsubscribing:
>> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
>
>
> --
> Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>    Portable: (+33) 6.59.80.16.78
>         www.ggarciao.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> protege-owl mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>
> Instructions for unsubscribing:
> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
>

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Re: Problems with Manchester OWL Editor

Timothy Redmond

All right. I see what you see (you need to update to protege 4.1, btw
- 4.02 is obsolete)

This is right.

I'm ccing this to Matthew Horridge, who writes the OWLAPI, and to the
reasoner developers as well. Hopefully between them and Tim they will
figure out what's broken where and repair this.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't see this problem with Protege 4.1 (and thus with the 3.1 version of the OWL api).  It doesn't make sense at this point to fix OWL API 3.0 "bugs".  This api targeted a specification of the OWL language (1.1) that never became a standard.  In fact, I think the real story is even more muddy than that.

So in order to have an issue that needs fixing, it needs to be demonstrated to be an OWL api 3.1 issue.

-Timothy



On 11/20/2010 06:12 AM, Alan Ruttenberg wrote:
All right. I see what you see (you need to update to protege 4.1, btw
- 4.02 is obsolete)
This issue exposes several bugs.

Here is the offending clause:

  <rdf:Property rdf:about="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name"
vs:term_status="testing" rdfs:label="name" rdfs:comment="A name for
some thing.">
    <rdf:type rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#DatatypeProperty"/>
    <rdfs:domain rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing"/>
    <rdfs:range rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Literal"/>
    <rdfs:isDefinedBy rdf:resource="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"/>
    <rdfs:subPropertyOf
rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label"/>
  </rdf:Property>

1) The foaf file is not valid OWL-DL (nor does it claim to be). In
OWL, rdfs:label is an annotation property. As name is a datatype
property. Datatype properties can't be subproperty of annotation
property. The tool is not telling you that.

2) Even though rdfs:label is nowhere declared to be an object
property, protege/owlapi is deciding it is one.

3) Having decided it is one, since name is a subproperty of label, it
is deciding it too is an object property.

4) Properties can't be both object and data properties in OWL DL. The
tool is not telling you that.

5) Worse, you can actually use the property as both a data property
and an object property and none of the reasoners will complain.
(attached file).

I'm ccing this to Matthew Horridge, who writes the OWLAPI, and to the
reasoner developers as well. Hopefully between them and Tim they will
figure out what's broken where and repair this.

Unfortunately, if you want to use foaf in OWL DL, then you must either
petition the developers to make one that is OWL DL compatible (not
hard - I could help) or simply selected terms you want to use within
protege. You can set the URI of a term using the Refactor>Change
entity URI after you define a property to set its URI to the foaf URI.

Tim, the Gforge item isn't relevant here, as this isn't a valid case of punning.

-Alan


On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Guillermo Garcia
[hidden email] wrote:
Sure,
* Im using protege 4.0.2 - binary version with installer for windows.
* The FOAF ontology uri is: http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Alan Ruttenberg [hidden email]
wrote:
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Guillermo Garcia
[hidden email] wrote:
I saw it in the protege GUI:
* name is a Data Property with range Literal
* name is also a Object Property, decendent of label Object Property
Can you send me a link to the version you imported? Or the ontology as a
whole?
Are you using Protege 3 or Protege 4?
-Alan

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Alan Ruttenberg
[hidden email]
wrote:
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Guillermo Garcia
[hidden email] wrote:
Person and name value "Peter Parker"
where
   Person -> FOAF ontology Class
   name -> FOAF ontology Data Property
   "Peter Parker" -> Literal
But the query editor doesnt let me execute the query because he cant
resolve
the conflict between the "name" Data property and the "name" Object
Property
(both define en FOAF ontology).
Where are these both defined in foaf? The documentation says the range
is a literal. In the RDF I see:

 <rdf:Property rdf:about="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name"
vs:term_status="testing" rdfs:label="name" rdfs:comment="A name for
some thing.">
   <rdf:type
rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#DatatypeProperty"/>
   <rdfs:domain rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing"/>
   <rdfs:range
rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Literal"/>
   <rdfs:isDefinedBy rdf:resource="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"/>
   <rdfs:subPropertyOf
rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label"/>
 </rdf:Property>

-Alan

The Editor always think that name is the
Object Property and due to that, I cant put a Literal as part of the
query.
This is a name scope bug? or there is a way to solve this using the
syntax
of the query language (like prefixs, for exemple)?

--
Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
        www.ggarciao.com


_______________________________________________
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Instructions for unsubscribing:
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Instructions for unsubscribing:
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--
Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
   Portable: (+33) 6.59.80.16.78
        www.ggarciao.com


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Instructions for unsubscribing:
http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03


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Instructions for unsubscribing:
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--
Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
   Portable: (+33) 6.59.80.16.78
        www.ggarciao.com


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_______________________________________________ protege-owl mailing list [hidden email] https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl Instructions for unsubscribing: http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03


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Re: Problems with Manchester OWL Editor

Alan Ruttenberg-2
On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Timothy Redmond <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> All right. I see what you see (you need to update to protege 4.1, btw
> - 4.02 is obsolete)
>
> This is right.
>
> I'm ccing this to Matthew Horridge, who writes the OWLAPI, and to the
> reasoner developers as well. Hopefully between them and Tim they will
> figure out what's broken where and repair this.
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't see this problem with Protege 4.1

You are wrong. As usual, I test with the latest version before I report a bug.
The file attached to my previous message, which is invalid OWL-DL
loads and reasons without note.

You can see the issue by looking for the name property, which you will
see in both the object property(subproperty of label) and data
property (top level) tabs. It has the same URI in both cases -
http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name

In the individuals tab you can see an individual named "twonames"
which uses the property as both an object and data property.

For reference, the relevant section of the spec is
http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/REC-owl2-syntax-20091027/#Typing_Constraints_of_OWL_2_DL
"No IRI I is declared in Ax as being of more than one type of
property; that is, no I is declared in Ax to be both object and data,
object and annotation, or data and annotation property."

-Alan

> (and thus with the 3.1 version of the OWL api).  It doesn't make sense at
> this point to fix OWL API 3.0 "bugs".  This api targeted a specification of
> the OWL language (1.1) that never became a standard.  In fact, I think the
> real story is even more muddy than that.
>
> So in order to have an issue that needs fixing, it needs to be demonstrated
> to be an OWL api 3.1 issue.
>
> -Timothy
>
>
>
> On 11/20/2010 06:12 AM, Alan Ruttenberg wrote:
>
> All right. I see what you see (you need to update to protege 4.1, btw
> - 4.02 is obsolete)
> This issue exposes several bugs.
>
> Here is the offending clause:
>
>   <rdf:Property rdf:about="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name"
> vs:term_status="testing" rdfs:label="name" rdfs:comment="A name for
> some thing.">
>     <rdf:type
> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#DatatypeProperty"/>
>     <rdfs:domain rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing"/>
>     <rdfs:range
> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Literal"/>
>     <rdfs:isDefinedBy rdf:resource="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"/>
>     <rdfs:subPropertyOf
> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label"/>
>   </rdf:Property>
>
> 1) The foaf file is not valid OWL-DL (nor does it claim to be). In
> OWL, rdfs:label is an annotation property. As name is a datatype
> property. Datatype properties can't be subproperty of annotation
> property. The tool is not telling you that.
>
> 2) Even though rdfs:label is nowhere declared to be an object
> property, protege/owlapi is deciding it is one.
>
> 3) Having decided it is one, since name is a subproperty of label, it
> is deciding it too is an object property.
>
> 4) Properties can't be both object and data properties in OWL DL. The
> tool is not telling you that.
>
> 5) Worse, you can actually use the property as both a data property
> and an object property and none of the reasoners will complain.
> (attached file).
>
> I'm ccing this to Matthew Horridge, who writes the OWLAPI, and to the
> reasoner developers as well. Hopefully between them and Tim they will
> figure out what's broken where and repair this.
>
> Unfortunately, if you want to use foaf in OWL DL, then you must either
> petition the developers to make one that is OWL DL compatible (not
> hard - I could help) or simply selected terms you want to use within
> protege. You can set the URI of a term using the Refactor>Change
> entity URI after you define a property to set its URI to the foaf URI.
>
> Tim, the Gforge item isn't relevant here, as this isn't a valid case of
> punning.
>
> -Alan
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Guillermo Garcia
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Sure,
> * Im using protege 4.0.2 - binary version with installer for windows.
> * The FOAF ontology uri is: http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Alan Ruttenberg <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Guillermo Garcia
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I saw it in the protege GUI:
> * name is a Data Property with range Literal
> * name is also a Object Property, decendent of label Object Property
>
> Can you send me a link to the version you imported? Or the ontology as a
> whole?
> Are you using Protege 3 or Protege 4?
> -Alan
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Alan Ruttenberg
> <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Guillermo Garcia
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Person and name value "Peter Parker"
> where
>    Person -> FOAF ontology Class
>    name -> FOAF ontology Data Property
>    "Peter Parker" -> Literal
> But the query editor doesnt let me execute the query because he cant
> resolve
> the conflict between the "name" Data property and the "name" Object
> Property
> (both define en FOAF ontology).
>
> Where are these both defined in foaf? The documentation says the range
> is a literal. In the RDF I see:
>
>  <rdf:Property rdf:about="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name"
> vs:term_status="testing" rdfs:label="name" rdfs:comment="A name for
> some thing.">
>    <rdf:type
> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#DatatypeProperty"/>
>    <rdfs:domain rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing"/>
>    <rdfs:range
> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Literal"/>
>    <rdfs:isDefinedBy rdf:resource="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"/>
>    <rdfs:subPropertyOf
> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label"/>
>  </rdf:Property>
>
> -Alan
>
> The Editor always think that name is the
>
> Object Property and due to that, I cant put a Literal as part of the
> query.
> This is a name scope bug? or there is a way to solve this using the
> syntax
> of the query language (like prefixs, for exemple)?
>
> --
> Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>         www.ggarciao.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> protege-owl mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>
> Instructions for unsubscribing:
> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> protege-owl mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>
> Instructions for unsubscribing:
> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
>
> --
> Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>    Portable: (+33) 6.59.80.16.78
>         www.ggarciao.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> protege-owl mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>
> Instructions for unsubscribing:
> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> protege-owl mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>
> Instructions for unsubscribing:
> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
>
> --
> Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>    Portable: (+33) 6.59.80.16.78
>         www.ggarciao.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> protege-owl mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>
> Instructions for unsubscribing:
> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> protege-owl mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>
> Instructions for unsubscribing:
> http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
>
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>
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Re: Problems with Manchester OWL Editor

Timothy Redmond

> Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't see this problem with Protege 4.1
> You are wrong.

You are right - I was wrong.  I was very sloppy in checking things out.

I think that what is needed here is better validation tools.  This
particular item would be very easy to discover programatically.   I
suspect the OWL api OWL 2 validator would find it.  Integrating this
type of validation with an ontology editor is a bit less trivial but it
is definitely in the plans.   There is a need for better validation
because we get a fair bit of e-mail on the list with people having
trouble with the global property hierarchy constraints.  Also we are
having periodic problems with ontologies that do not parse under 1.0 or
2.0 because they use 1.1 rdf idioms.

But I think it is good that the tools try to load and work with
problematic ontologies.  We are seeing such ontologies and people want
to work with them.  In some cases the ontology developers are explicitly
resistant to making these ontologies OWL 2 compliant.  Logging a warning
is nice but is often not particularly helpful.  You could also use
layered error levels and handlers (ala Jena and Protege 3 OWL) but this
is a bit ugly.

I am curious how rdfs:label became an object property.  This is not
clear yet.

-Timothy




On 11/20/2010 11:54 AM, Alan Ruttenberg wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Timothy Redmond<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> All right. I see what you see (you need to update to protege 4.1, btw
>> - 4.02 is obsolete)
>>
>> This is right.
>>
>> I'm ccing this to Matthew Horridge, who writes the OWLAPI, and to the
>> reasoner developers as well. Hopefully between them and Tim they will
>> figure out what's broken where and repair this.
>>
>> Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't see this problem with Protege 4.1
> You are wrong. As usual, I test with the latest version before I report a bug.
> The file attached to my previous message, which is invalid OWL-DL
> loads and reasons without note.
>
> You can see the issue by looking for the name property, which you will
> see in both the object property(subproperty of label) and data
> property (top level) tabs. It has the same URI in both cases -
> http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name
>
> In the individuals tab you can see an individual named "twonames"
> which uses the property as both an object and data property.
>
> For reference, the relevant section of the spec is
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/REC-owl2-syntax-20091027/#Typing_Constraints_of_OWL_2_DL
> "No IRI I is declared in Ax as being of more than one type of
> property; that is, no I is declared in Ax to be both object and data,
> object and annotation, or data and annotation property."
>
> -Alan
>
>> (and thus with the 3.1 version of the OWL api).  It doesn't make sense at
>> this point to fix OWL API 3.0 "bugs".  This api targeted a specification of
>> the OWL language (1.1) that never became a standard.  In fact, I think the
>> real story is even more muddy than that.
>>
>> So in order to have an issue that needs fixing, it needs to be demonstrated
>> to be an OWL api 3.1 issue.
>>
>> -Timothy
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/20/2010 06:12 AM, Alan Ruttenberg wrote:
>>
>> All right. I see what you see (you need to update to protege 4.1, btw
>> - 4.02 is obsolete)
>> This issue exposes several bugs.
>>
>> Here is the offending clause:
>>
>>    <rdf:Property rdf:about="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name"
>> vs:term_status="testing" rdfs:label="name" rdfs:comment="A name for
>> some thing.">
>>      <rdf:type
>> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#DatatypeProperty"/>
>>      <rdfs:domain rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing"/>
>>      <rdfs:range
>> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Literal"/>
>>      <rdfs:isDefinedBy rdf:resource="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"/>
>>      <rdfs:subPropertyOf
>> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label"/>
>>    </rdf:Property>
>>
>> 1) The foaf file is not valid OWL-DL (nor does it claim to be). In
>> OWL, rdfs:label is an annotation property. As name is a datatype
>> property. Datatype properties can't be subproperty of annotation
>> property. The tool is not telling you that.
>>
>> 2) Even though rdfs:label is nowhere declared to be an object
>> property, protege/owlapi is deciding it is one.
>>
>> 3) Having decided it is one, since name is a subproperty of label, it
>> is deciding it too is an object property.
>>
>> 4) Properties can't be both object and data properties in OWL DL. The
>> tool is not telling you that.
>>
>> 5) Worse, you can actually use the property as both a data property
>> and an object property and none of the reasoners will complain.
>> (attached file).
>>
>> I'm ccing this to Matthew Horridge, who writes the OWLAPI, and to the
>> reasoner developers as well. Hopefully between them and Tim they will
>> figure out what's broken where and repair this.
>>
>> Unfortunately, if you want to use foaf in OWL DL, then you must either
>> petition the developers to make one that is OWL DL compatible (not
>> hard - I could help) or simply selected terms you want to use within
>> protege. You can set the URI of a term using the Refactor>Change
>> entity URI after you define a property to set its URI to the foaf URI.
>>
>> Tim, the Gforge item isn't relevant here, as this isn't a valid case of
>> punning.
>>
>> -Alan
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Guillermo Garcia
>> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>> Sure,
>> * Im using protege 4.0.2 - binary version with installer for windows.
>> * The FOAF ontology uri is: http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Alan Ruttenberg<[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Guillermo Garcia
>> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>> I saw it in the protege GUI:
>> * name is a Data Property with range Literal
>> * name is also a Object Property, decendent of label Object Property
>>
>> Can you send me a link to the version you imported? Or the ontology as a
>> whole?
>> Are you using Protege 3 or Protege 4?
>> -Alan
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Alan Ruttenberg
>> <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Guillermo Garcia
>> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>> Person and name value "Peter Parker"
>> where
>>     Person ->  FOAF ontology Class
>>     name ->  FOAF ontology Data Property
>>     "Peter Parker" ->  Literal
>> But the query editor doesnt let me execute the query because he cant
>> resolve
>> the conflict between the "name" Data property and the "name" Object
>> Property
>> (both define en FOAF ontology).
>>
>> Where are these both defined in foaf? The documentation says the range
>> is a literal. In the RDF I see:
>>
>>   <rdf:Property rdf:about="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name"
>> vs:term_status="testing" rdfs:label="name" rdfs:comment="A name for
>> some thing.">
>>     <rdf:type
>> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#DatatypeProperty"/>
>>     <rdfs:domain rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#Thing"/>
>>     <rdfs:range
>> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Literal"/>
>>     <rdfs:isDefinedBy rdf:resource="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"/>
>>     <rdfs:subPropertyOf
>> rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label"/>
>>   </rdf:Property>
>>
>> -Alan
>>
>> The Editor always think that name is the
>>
>> Object Property and due to that, I cant put a Literal as part of the
>> query.
>> This is a name scope bug? or there is a way to solve this using the
>> syntax
>> of the query language (like prefixs, for exemple)?
>>
>> --
>> Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>>          www.ggarciao.com
>>
>>
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>> --
>> Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>>     Portable: (+33) 6.59.80.16.78
>>          www.ggarciao.com
>>
>>
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>> --
>> Guillermo Tomás García Ochoa
>>     Portable: (+33) 6.59.80.16.78
>>          www.ggarciao.com
>>
>>
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Re: Problems with Manchester OWL Editor

Alan Ruttenberg-2
On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 6:54 PM, Timothy Redmond <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't see this problem with Protege 4.1
>> You are wrong.
>
> You are right - I was wrong.  I was very sloppy in checking things out.
>
> I think that what is needed here is better validation tools.  This
> particular item would be very easy to discover programatically.   I suspect
> the OWL api OWL 2 validator would find it.  Integrating this type of
> validation with an ontology editor is a bit less trivial but it is
> definitely in the plans.   There is a need for better validation because we
> get a fair bit of e-mail on the list with people having trouble with the
> global property hierarchy constraints.  Also we are having periodic problems
> with ontologies that do not parse under 1.0 or 2.0 because they use 1.1 rdf
> idioms.
>
> But I think it is good that the tools try to load and work with problematic
> ontologies.  We are seeing such ontologies and people want to work with
> them.  In some cases the ontology developers are explicitly resistant to
> making these ontologies OWL 2 compliant.  Logging a warning is nice but is
> often not particularly helpful.  You could also use layered error levels and
> handlers (ala Jena and Protege 3 OWL) but this is a bit ugly.

I would:

a) not disallow them while editing, for the reason you state
b) mark them in a way that lets one immediately know there is a
problem, as with unsatisfiable classes. Perhaps color them orange and
have a popup that says what the problem is.
c) Not send malformed OWL files to a reasoner. GIGO.

> I am curious how rdfs:label became an object property.  This is not clear
> yet.

Same here.

-Alan
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