Protege & SKOS

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
2 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Protege & SKOS

Dan Brickley-2
Hello Protege people,

Forwarding this from the SKOS list. Simon, are Simon Cox's issues here
easily fixable? I know of other projects also keen to have a full SKOS
editor. Could you say a little about the plans for the project? How
actively is it being developed?

http://code.google.com/p/skoseditor/
-> http://code.google.com/p/skoseditor/updates/list shows updates
yesterday, but nothing else in 2009 since January.

"Fatally flawed" is pretty strong comment. When I've tried it, I was
left with more an "intriguing, promising but a bit fiddly to use"
impression, especially as someone who doesn't use Protege often.

Is http://code.google.com/p/skoseditor/issues/list actively used? Are
there more bugs known than listed there? How should Simon & Steve best
record their issues with the software?

cheers,

Dan


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: SKOS tools?
Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:54:04 +0000
Resent-From: [hidden email]
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:53:20 +0800
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
CC: <[hidden email]>

Dear SKOS list -

The GeoSciML project has been evaluating SKOS to implement its
'controlled concpet' model (see
http://www.geosciml.org/geosciml/2.0/doc/GeoSciML/Vocabulary/package-summary.html 
for the UML representation, and you'll see how SKOS is a close match!).
My colleague Steve Richard is the lead editor, on behalf of a consortium
including many of the world's leading geological surveys*, for around 25
vocabularies related to geology.
This is a significant effort in the natural sciences.

Being a happy old XML hacker I can tolerate RDF/XML and a text editor
for prototyping.
But this obviously ain't acceptable for most users, doesn't scale to
production work, and fails to provide the consistency checking and
visualization that a proper editor would.

We are mighty frustrated (and getting worse!) at the state of tool support.
In particular, Protégé, even with the SKOS plugin, appears to be fatally
flawed.
I've used it from time to time for _viewing_ a concept scheme, but have
never been able to successfully round trip through export/import, so it
doesn't work as an editor.
Steve is now finding further flaws - see below - e.g. labels implemented
as objectProperty, no literal support or language attributes.

This is all very disappointing.
What tools are people people using successfully for development and
management of SKOS instances?

Simon Cox

(*) See http://onegeology.org/technical_progress/geosciml.html and
http://onegeology.org/participants/graphical_map.html

______
[hidden email]  CSIRO Exploration & Mining
26 Dick Perry Avenue, Kensington WA 6151
PO Box 1130, Bentley WA 6102  AUSTRALIA
T: +61 (0)8 6436 8639  Cell: +61 (0) 403 302 672
Polycom PVX: 130.116.146.28
<http://www.csiro.au>

ABN: 41 687 119 230

-----Original Message-----
From: stephen richard [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2009 9:31 AM
To: Cox, Simon (E&M, Kensington)
Subject: Re: [Auscope-geosciml] Simple lithology vocabulary in MMI
repository

Right now I'm mostly frustrated-
the new version of Protege (v4, released today) doesn't preserve
language attributes on prefLabel elements, and the SKOS tool models
prefLabel as an ObjectProperty, so you can't populate it with a literal,
and it doesn't appear to be consistent with the current SKOS spec.
What I started out to do was clean up the hierarchy in
standardLithology, which is a mess. The owl/SKOS tools looked like a
possible way to do it. Instead I've spun my wheels for 3 days. The idea
is simply to be able to round trip between GeologicVocabulary and some
brand of SKOS, for which there is a functional tool, build and fix
hierarchies in SKOS, and convert back to GeologicVocabulary to update in
the BRGM repository. Meanwhile there are the possibilities of vocabulary
services that could assist with document validation and better yet query
resolution with hierarchical properties...

What's AuScope using for SKOS tools?

steve

[hidden email] wrote:

> Steve
> Good hunting.
>
> A few comments and a bit of an update about where the AuScope vocabs/vocab-server work is at:
>
>
> i. Terms and Labels -
> skos:prefLabel, skos:altLabel, skos:hiddenLabel and skos:notation can and should be used to support the assignment of multi-lingual terms, synonyms, misspellings (!) and symbols to concepts, regardless of the encoding (OWL, SKOS, other RDF languages). The semantics of these are clear and relevant to our needs, and the rdfs:domain of all of these is unrestricted so they can be applied to any rdf resource.
>
>
...

--
Stephen M. Richard
Section Chief, Geoinformatics
Arizona Geological Survey
416 W. Congress St., #100
Tucson, Arizona, 85701 USA

Phone:
Office: (520) 209-4127
Reception: (520) 770-3500
FAX: (520) 770-3505

email: [hidden email]



_______________________________________________
protege-owl mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl

Instructions for unsubscribing: http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03 
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Protege & SKOS

Nick Drummond
[Moved to p4-feedback]

"Protégé, even with the SKOS plugin, appears to be fatally flawed"

Are the roundtripping problems you are having with p4 in general, or
SKOSed in particular?

I've tried providing language for some prefLabels directly in P4 and
it roundtrips fine.

Could you provide some examples of problems you are having with roundtripping?
It is difficult for these things to be fixed otherwise.

Nick


2009/6/18 Dan Brickley <[hidden email]>:

> Hello Protege people,
>
> Forwarding this from the SKOS list. Simon, are Simon Cox's issues here
> easily fixable? I know of other projects also keen to have a full SKOS
> editor. Could you say a little about the plans for the project? How
> actively is it being developed?
>
> http://code.google.com/p/skoseditor/
> -> http://code.google.com/p/skoseditor/updates/list shows updates
> yesterday, but nothing else in 2009 since January.
>
> "Fatally flawed" is pretty strong comment. When I've tried it, I was
> left with more an "intriguing, promising but a bit fiddly to use"
> impression, especially as someone who doesn't use Protege often.
>
> Is http://code.google.com/p/skoseditor/issues/list actively used? Are
> there more bugs known than listed there? How should Simon & Steve best
> record their issues with the software?
>
> cheers,
>
> Dan
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: SKOS tools?
> Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:54:04 +0000
> Resent-From: [hidden email]
> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:53:20 +0800
> From: <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> CC: <[hidden email]>
>
> Dear SKOS list -
>
> The GeoSciML project has been evaluating SKOS to implement its
> 'controlled concpet' model (see
> http://www.geosciml.org/geosciml/2.0/doc/GeoSciML/Vocabulary/package-summary.html
> for the UML representation, and you'll see how SKOS is a close match!).
> My colleague Steve Richard is the lead editor, on behalf of a consortium
> including many of the world's leading geological surveys*, for around 25
> vocabularies related to geology.
> This is a significant effort in the natural sciences.
>
> Being a happy old XML hacker I can tolerate RDF/XML and a text editor
> for prototyping.
> But this obviously ain't acceptable for most users, doesn't scale to
> production work, and fails to provide the consistency checking and
> visualization that a proper editor would.
>
> We are mighty frustrated (and getting worse!) at the state of tool support.
> In particular, Protégé, even with the SKOS plugin, appears to be fatally
> flawed.
> I've used it from time to time for _viewing_ a concept scheme, but have
> never been able to successfully round trip through export/import, so it
> doesn't work as an editor.
> Steve is now finding further flaws - see below - e.g. labels implemented
> as objectProperty, no literal support or language attributes.
>
> This is all very disappointing.
> What tools are people people using successfully for development and
> management of SKOS instances?
>
> Simon Cox
>
> (*) See http://onegeology.org/technical_progress/geosciml.html and
> http://onegeology.org/participants/graphical_map.html
>
> ______
> [hidden email]  CSIRO Exploration & Mining
> 26 Dick Perry Avenue, Kensington WA 6151
> PO Box 1130, Bentley WA 6102  AUSTRALIA
> T: +61 (0)8 6436 8639  Cell: +61 (0) 403 302 672
> Polycom PVX: 130.116.146.28
> <http://www.csiro.au>
>
> ABN: 41 687 119 230
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stephen richard [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2009 9:31 AM
> To: Cox, Simon (E&M, Kensington)
> Subject: Re: [Auscope-geosciml] Simple lithology vocabulary in MMI
> repository
>
> Right now I'm mostly frustrated-
> the new version of Protege (v4, released today) doesn't preserve
> language attributes on prefLabel elements, and the SKOS tool models
> prefLabel as an ObjectProperty, so you can't populate it with a literal,
> and it doesn't appear to be consistent with the current SKOS spec.
> What I started out to do was clean up the hierarchy in
> standardLithology, which is a mess. The owl/SKOS tools looked like a
> possible way to do it. Instead I've spun my wheels for 3 days. The idea
> is simply to be able to round trip between GeologicVocabulary and some
> brand of SKOS, for which there is a functional tool, build and fix
> hierarchies in SKOS, and convert back to GeologicVocabulary to update in
> the BRGM repository. Meanwhile there are the possibilities of vocabulary
> services that could assist with document validation and better yet query
> resolution with hierarchical properties...
>
> What's AuScope using for SKOS tools?
>
> steve
>
> [hidden email] wrote:
>> Steve
>> Good hunting.
>>
>> A few comments and a bit of an update about where the AuScope vocabs/vocab-server work is at:
>>
>>
>> i. Terms and Labels -
>> skos:prefLabel, skos:altLabel, skos:hiddenLabel and skos:notation can and should be used to support the assignment of multi-lingual terms, synonyms, misspellings (!) and symbols to concepts, regardless of the encoding (OWL, SKOS, other RDF languages). The semantics of these are clear and relevant to our needs, and the rdfs:domain of all of these is unrestricted so they can be applied to any rdf resource.
>>
>>
> ...
>
> --
> Stephen M. Richard
> Section Chief, Geoinformatics
> Arizona Geological Survey
> 416 W. Congress St., #100
> Tucson, Arizona, 85701 USA
>
> Phone:
> Office: (520) 209-4127
> Reception: (520) 770-3500
> FAX: (520) 770-3505
>
> email: [hidden email]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> protege-owl mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl
>
> Instructions for unsubscribing: http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03
>
_______________________________________________
protege-owl mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/protege-owl

Instructions for unsubscribing: http://protege.stanford.edu/doc/faq.html#01a.03