[protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

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[protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

helen.chen

Dear All,

When opening an new protege project, I selected "OWL-DL" as the language profile.  

Later, I realize there is a real need to express the equivalence of two concepts at the class level, as the following:

:A  owl:sameAs :B

where both :A and :B are classes.   I am aware that this makes my ontology OWL-FULL, which is OK for my purpose.

Question1 :
Do I need to instruct the project to handle "OWL-FULL" at this point?  If yes, where do I change it?

Question2:
On the class tab, I don't know how to make "owl:sameAs" or "owl:quivalentClass" properties visible, in the same way as "owl:disjointWith" is displayed.

 
Thanks for your help.


Helen.
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[protege-owl] Re: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

John Goodwin
Helen,
 
Go to the OWL menu then select preferences.
 
You will see equivalentTo display in the class hierarchy, but no idea about sameAs as I tend to stick to OWL DL. Out of curiousity why do you want A sameAs B as opposed to A equivalentTo B? What are you trying to achieve with this?
 
John

________________________________

From: [hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]
Sent: Tue 13/06/2006 22:35
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege



Dear All,

When opening an new protege project, I selected "OWL-DL" as the language profile.  

Later, I realize there is a real need to express the equivalence of two concepts at the class level, as the following:

:A  owl:sameAs :B

where both :A and :B are classes.   I am aware that this makes my ontology OWL-FULL, which is OK for my purpose.

Question1 :
Do I need to instruct the project to handle "OWL-FULL" at this point?  If yes, where do I change it?

Question2:
On the class tab, I don't know how to make "owl:sameAs" or "owl:quivalentClass" properties visible, in the same way as "owl:disjointWith" is displayed.

 
Thanks for your help.

Helen.


.


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Ordnance Survey
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[protege-owl] AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

Rajverma
In reply to this post by helen.chen

Hi John,

 

Which version of Protege are you using? B’cos, in my Protégé (3.2 beta build 318) I don’t see this ‘equivalentTo’ display anywhere… in the OWL-Preferences-Visibility tab there is ‘sameAs’ option in OWL Properties, but I cudn’t find the ‘equivalentTo’ option anwhere…

 

By the way, when we check this box what shud happen? I was expecting that there will be these widgets for all of these properties when we check them, but I cud see only one for ‘owl:disjointWith’ but not for the rest of the OWL Properties!

 

Again, when I uncheck all of these properties, then the ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget should disappear, right? But it doesn’t! Is this a program bug?

 

Cheers,

Raj

 

 

 


Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von John Goodwin
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2006 07:34
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: RE: [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

 

Helen,

 

Go to the OWL menu then select preferences.

 

You will see equivalentTo display in the class hierarchy, but no idea about sameAs as I tend to stick to OWL DL. Out of curiousity why do you want A sameAs B as opposed to A equivalentTo B? What are you trying to achieve with this?

 

John

 


From: [hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]
Sent: Tue 13/06/2006 22:35
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege


Dear All,

When opening an new protege project, I selected "OWL-DL" as the language profile.  

Later, I realize there is a real need to express the equivalence of two concepts at the class level, as the following:

:A  owl:sameAs :B

where both :A and :B are classes.   I am aware that this makes my ontology OWL-FULL, which is OK for my purpose.

Question1 :
Do I need to instruct the project to handle "OWL-FULL" at this point?  If yes, where do I change it?

Question2:
On the class tab, I don't know how to make "owl:sameAs" or "owl:quivalentClass" properties visible, in the same way as "owl:disjointWith" is displayed.

 
Thanks for your help.


Helen.

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[protege-owl] Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

John Goodwin
Hi Raj,
 
I am using 3.2 Beta Build 243.
 
If I have two classes and I have asserted them to be equivalent then this is show (and asserted) in the asserted conditions panel as a necessary and sufficient condition. Furthermore, in the class hierarchy I would see something like
 
- B = E
     E = B
  E = B
 
So "equivalentTo" will not be seen - as in you won't see the words equivalentTo - but the above mean the same thing.
 
I use the "logical view" in Protege - so I'm not familiar with otherviews.
 
Relationship between a class A and other classes via certain properties will appear in the asserted conditions box as property restrictions. Is that what you meant?
 
John


From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mudunuri, Raj
Sent: 14 June 2006 10:25
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [protege-owl] AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

Hi John,

 

Which version of Protege are you using? B’cos, in my Protégé (3.2 beta build 318) I don’t see this ‘equivalentTo’ display anywhere… in the OWL-Preferences-Visibility tab there is ‘sameAs’ option in OWL Properties, but I cudn’t find the ‘equivalentTo’ option anwhere…

 

By the way, when we check this box what shud happen? I was expecting that there will be these widgets for all of these properties when we check them, but I cud see only one for ‘owl:disjointWith’ but not for the rest of the OWL Properties!

 

Again, when I uncheck all of these properties, then the ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget should disappear, right? But it doesn’t! Is this a program bug?

 

Cheers,

Raj

 

 

 


Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von John Goodwin
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2006 07:34
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: RE: [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

 

Helen,

 

Go to the OWL menu then select preferences.

 

You will see equivalentTo display in the class hierarchy, but no idea about sameAs as I tend to stick to OWL DL. Out of curiousity why do you want A sameAs B as opposed to A equivalentTo B? What are you trying to achieve with this?

 

John

 


From: [hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]
Sent: Tue 13/06/2006 22:35
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege


Dear All,

When opening an new protege project, I selected "OWL-DL" as the language profile.  

Later, I realize there is a real need to express the equivalence of two concepts at the class level, as the following:

:A  owl:sameAs :B

where both :A and :B are classes.   I am aware that this makes my ontology OWL-FULL, which is OK for my purpose.

Question1 :
Do I need to instruct the project to handle "OWL-FULL" at this point?  If yes, where do I change it?

Question2:
On the class tab, I don't know how to make "owl:sameAs" or "owl:quivalentClass" properties visible, in the same way as "owl:disjointWith" is displayed.

 
Thanks for your help.


Helen.

.


This email is only intended for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential information. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this email which must not be copied, distributed or disclosed to any other person.

Unless stated otherwise, the contents of this email are personal to the writer and do not represent the official view of Ordnance Survey. Nor can any contract be formed on Ordnance Survey's behalf via email. We reserve the right to monitor emails and attachments without prior notice.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Ordnance Survey
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Southampton SO16 4GU
Tel: 023 8079 2000
http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk


	
	
	
	
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[protege-owl] Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

LakshmiChaitanya A (HCL Capital Market Services)
In reply to this post by Rajverma
hi,
     This is chaitanya, I am working on Ontology. I have downloaded the Protege Software 2.1 version, with some OwlViz Plugins, but I am unable to get the Graphical (Asserted Hierarchy and the Inferred Hierarchy) view of it. Can anyone help me regarding this. I tried downloading all kinds of things.
 
 
 
 
Thanking You,
With Regards
 
A.Lakshmi Chaitanya
Financial Engineering Group,
HCL Capital Market Services
 
 


From: [hidden email] on behalf of Mudunuri, Raj
Sent: Wed 14-Jun-06 2:54 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [protege-owl] AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

Hi John,

 

Which version of Protege are you using? B’cos, in my Protégé (3.2 beta build 318) I don’t see this ‘equivalentTo’ display anywhere… in the OWL-Preferences-Visibility tab there is ‘sameAs’ option in OWL Properties, but I cudn’t find the ‘equivalentTo’ option anwhere…

 

By the way, when we check this box what shud happen? I was expecting that there will be these widgets for all of these properties when we check them, but I cud see only one for ‘owl:disjointWith’ but not for the rest of the OWL Properties!

 

Again, when I uncheck all of these properties, then the ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget should disappear, right? But it doesn’t! Is this a program bug?

 

Cheers,

Raj

 

 

 


Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von John Goodwin
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2006 07:34
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: RE: [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

 

Helen,

 

Go to the OWL menu then select preferences.

 

You will see equivalentTo display in the class hierarchy, but no idea about sameAs as I tend to stick to OWL DL. Out of curiousity why do you want A sameAs B as opposed to A equivalentTo B? What are you trying to achieve with this?

 

John

 


From: [hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]
Sent: Tue 13/06/2006 22:35
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege


Dear All,

When opening an new protege project, I selected "OWL-DL" as the language profile.  

Later, I realize there is a real need to express the equivalence of two concepts at the class level, as the following:

:A  owl:sameAs :B

where both :A and :B are classes.   I am aware that this makes my ontology OWL-FULL, which is OK for my purpose.

Question1 :
Do I need to instruct the project to handle "OWL-FULL" at this point?  If yes, where do I change it?

Question2:
On the class tab, I don't know how to make "owl:sameAs" or "owl:quivalentClass" properties visible, in the same way as "owl:disjointWith" is displayed.

 
Thanks for your help.


Helen.

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[protege-owl] Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

Hugo Ferreira
In reply to this post by Rajverma
Hi Raj,

Mudunuri, Raj wrote:
> Hi John,
>
>  
>
> Which version of Protege are you using? B’cos, in my Protégé (3.2 beta
> build 318) I don’t see this ‘equivalentTo’ display anywhere… in the
> OWL-Preferences-Visibility tab there is ‘sameAs’ option in OWL
> Properties, but I cudn’t find the ‘equivalentTo’ option anwhere…
>

To make two classes equivalent you must make the inheritance
relationship necessary and sufficient. This can be done by dragging
the parent class in the necessary only section to the necessary and
sufficient section (just above it).

HTHs,
Hugo F.


>  
>
> By the way, when we check this box what shud happen? I was expecting
> that there will be these widgets for all of these properties when we
> check them, but I cud see only one for ‘owl:disjointWith’ but not for
> the rest of the OWL Properties!
>
>  
>
> Again, when I uncheck all of these properties, then the
> ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget should disappear, right? But it doesn’t! Is
> this a program bug?
>
>  
>
> Cheers,
>
> Raj
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Von:* [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] *Im Auftrag von *John
> Goodwin
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2006 07:34
> *An:* [hidden email]
> *Betreff:* RE: [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and
> express owl:sameAs in Protege
>
>  
>
> Helen,
>
>  
>
> Go to the OWL menu then select preferences.
>
>  
>
> You will see equivalentTo display in the class hierarchy, but no idea
> about sameAs as I tend to stick to OWL DL. Out of curiousity why do you
> want A sameAs B as opposed to A equivalentTo B? What are you trying to
> achieve with this?
>
>  
>
> John
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* [hidden email] on behalf of
> [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Tue 13/06/2006 22:35
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Subject:* [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express
> owl:sameAs in Protege
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> When opening an new protege project, I selected "OWL-DL" as the language
> profile.  
>
> Later, I realize there is a real need to express the equivalence of two
> concepts at the class level, as the following:
>
> :A  owl:sameAs :B
>
> where both :A and :B are classes.   I am aware that this makes my
> ontology OWL-FULL, which is OK for my purpose.
>
> Question1 :
> Do I need to instruct the project to handle "OWL-FULL" at this point?
>  If yes, where do I change it?
>
> Question2:
> On the class tab, I don't know how to make "owl:sameAs" or
> "owl:quivalentClass" properties visible, in the same way as
> "owl:disjointWith" is displayed.
>
>  
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Helen.
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe go to http://protege.stanford.edu/community/subscribe.html

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[protege-owl] Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

Elyes Lehtihet-3
Hello

How can we define two properties as equivalent (owl:equivalentProperty)
using the GUI? I am using 3.2Beta build 304 and I cannot see any
equivalentProperty option...

Thanks for your help,
Elyes

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Hugo Ferreira
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 11:01 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [protege-owl] Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express
owl:sameAs in Protege

Hi Raj,

Mudunuri, Raj wrote:
> Hi John,
>
>  
>
> Which version of Protege are you using? B’cos, in my Protégé (3.2 beta
> build 318) I don’t see this ‘equivalentTo’ display anywhere… in the
> OWL-Preferences-Visibility tab there is ‘sameAs’ option in OWL
> Properties, but I cudn’t find the ‘equivalentTo’ option anwhere…
>

To make two classes equivalent you must make the inheritance
relationship necessary and sufficient. This can be done by dragging
the parent class in the necessary only section to the necessary and
sufficient section (just above it).

HTHs,
Hugo F.


>  
>
> By the way, when we check this box what shud happen? I was expecting
> that there will be these widgets for all of these properties when we
> check them, but I cud see only one for ‘owl:disjointWith’ but not for
> the rest of the OWL Properties!
>
>  
>
> Again, when I uncheck all of these properties, then the
> ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget should disappear, right? But it doesn’t! Is
> this a program bug?
>
>  
>
> Cheers,
>
> Raj
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Von:* [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] *Im Auftrag von *John
> Goodwin
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2006 07:34
> *An:* [hidden email]
> *Betreff:* RE: [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and
> express owl:sameAs in Protege
>
>  
>
> Helen,
>
>  
>
> Go to the OWL menu then select preferences.
>
>  
>
> You will see equivalentTo display in the class hierarchy, but no idea
> about sameAs as I tend to stick to OWL DL. Out of curiousity why do you
> want A sameAs B as opposed to A equivalentTo B? What are you trying to
> achieve with this?
>
>  
>
> John
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* [hidden email] on behalf of
> [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Tue 13/06/2006 22:35
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Subject:* [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express
> owl:sameAs in Protege
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> When opening an new protege project, I selected "OWL-DL" as the language
> profile.  
>
> Later, I realize there is a real need to express the equivalence of two
> concepts at the class level, as the following:
>
> :A  owl:sameAs :B
>
> where both :A and :B are classes.   I am aware that this makes my
> ontology OWL-FULL, which is OK for my purpose.
>
> Question1 :
> Do I need to instruct the project to handle "OWL-FULL" at this point?
>  If yes, where do I change it?
>
> Question2:
> On the class tab, I don't know how to make "owl:sameAs" or
> "owl:quivalentClass" properties visible, in the same way as
> "owl:disjointWith" is displayed.
>
>  
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Helen.
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe go to http://protege.stanford.edu/community/subscribe.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe go to http://protege.stanford.edu/community/subscribe.html

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[protege-owl] AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

Rajverma
In reply to this post by helen.chen

Ok, I confused with ’equivalentTo’.

 

> Go to the OWL menu then select preferences.

> You will see equivalentTo display in the class hierarchy

 

I read these sentences, of your previous response, without giving a break in between… I didn’t see that these sentences were answers for two different questions… so I was expecting to see this ‘equivalentTo’ display in the class hierarchy after going to the OWL menu and select preferences ;)

 

What I meant with with OWL Properties is, when you go to the OWL menu, then select Preferences, and then select the Visibility tab, and here when you can see all of the Annotation Properties selected, but none of the OWL Properties are checked (atleast for me) so what is supposed to happen when we check and uncheck these properties? there is something to do with visibilitiy, so I expected that they show a widget (pane, or panel) or something like that for every kind of property… but the only widget shown is for ‘owl:disjointWith’ in the class editor window… but I don’t know how different is this ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget from the normal Disjoints widget b’cos both are showing the same values…

 

Cheers,

Raj

 

 


Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von John Goodwin
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2006 11:44
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: [protege-owl] Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

 

Hi Raj,

 

I am using 3.2 Beta Build 243.

 

If I have two classes and I have asserted them to be equivalent then this is show (and asserted) in the asserted conditions panel as a necessary and sufficient condition. Furthermore, in the class hierarchy I would see something like

 

- B = E

     E = B

  E = B

 

So "equivalentTo" will not be seen - as in you won't see the words equivalentTo - but the above mean the same thing.

 

I use the "logical view" in Protege - so I'm not familiar with otherviews.

 

Relationship between a class A and other classes via certain properties will appear in the asserted conditions box as property restrictions. Is that what you meant?

 

John

 


From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mudunuri, Raj
Sent: 14 June 2006 10:25
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [protege-owl] AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

Hi John,

 

Which version of Protege are you using? B’cos, in my Protégé (3.2 beta build 318) I don’t see this ‘equivalentTo’ display anywhere… in the OWL-Preferences-Visibility tab there is ‘sameAs’ option in OWL Properties, but I cudn’t find the ‘equivalentTo’ option anwhere…

 

By the way, when we check this box what shud happen? I was expecting that there will be these widgets for all of these properties when we check them, but I cud see only one for ‘owl:disjointWith’ but not for the rest of the OWL Properties!

 

Again, when I uncheck all of these properties, then the ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget should disappear, right? But it doesn’t! Is this a program bug?

 

Cheers,

Raj

 

 

 


Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von John Goodwin
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2006 07:34
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: RE: [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

 

Helen,

 

Go to the OWL menu then select preferences.

 

You will see equivalentTo display in the class hierarchy, but no idea about sameAs as I tend to stick to OWL DL. Out of curiousity why do you want A sameAs B as opposed to A equivalentTo B? What are you trying to achieve with this?

 

John

 


From: [hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]
Sent: Tue 13/06/2006 22:35
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege


Dear All,

When opening an new protege project, I selected "OWL-DL" as the language profile.  

Later, I realize there is a real need to express the equivalence of two concepts at the class level, as the following:

:A  owl:sameAs :B

where both :A and :B are classes.   I am aware that this makes my ontology OWL-FULL, which is OK for my purpose.

Question1 :
Do I need to instruct the project to handle "OWL-FULL" at this point?  If yes, where do I change it?

Question2:
On the class tab, I don't know how to make "owl:sameAs" or "owl:quivalentClass" properties visible, in the same way as "owl:disjointWith" is displayed.

 
Thanks for your help.


Helen.

.


This email is only intended for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential information. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this email which must not be copied, distributed or disclosed to any other person.

Unless stated otherwise, the contents of this email are personal to the writer and do not represent the official view of Ordnance Survey. Nor can any contract be formed on Ordnance Survey's behalf via email. We reserve the right to monitor emails and attachments without prior notice.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Ordnance Survey
Romsey Road
Southampton SO16 4GU
Tel: 023 8079 2000
http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk

	
	
	
	
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[protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

John Goodwin

Answer below...

 

I read these sentences, of your previous response, without giving a break in between… I didn’t see that these sentences were answers for two different questions… so I was expecting to see this ‘equivalentTo’ display in the class hierarchy after going to the OWL menu and select preferences ;)

 

Ahh sorry for the confusion!

 

What I meant with with OWL Properties is, when you go to the OWL menu, then select Preferences, and then select the Visibility tab, and here when you can see all of the Annotation Properties selected, but none of the OWL Properties are checked (atleast for me) so what is supposed to happen when we check and uncheck these properties? there is something to do with visibilitiy, so I expected that they show a widget (pane, or panel) or something like that for every kind of property… but the only widget shown is for ‘owl:disjointWith’ in the class editor window… but I don’t know how different is this ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget from the normal Disjoints widget b’cos both are showing the same values…

 

 

I've not really played with or used these preferences so not really sure I'm afraid.

 

John

.


This email is only intended for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential information. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this email which must not be copied, distributed or disclosed to any other person.

Unless stated otherwise, the contents of this email are personal to the writer and do not represent the official view of Ordnance Survey. Nor can any contract be formed on Ordnance Survey's behalf via email. We reserve the right to monitor emails and attachments without prior notice.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Ordnance Survey
Romsey Road
Southampton SO16 4GU
Tel: 023 8079 2000
http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk


	
	
	
	
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[protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

helen.chen

Raj and John

Thanks for your reply.  My experience is exactly what Raj described, word for word.

John, here is the reason I want to use owl:equivalentClass:

When trying to map two knowledge bases, I have a concept  :GestationalPatient in OntologyA,  which is defined as any patient from 0 week to the moment of birth.  In OntologyB, I have a concept :InUteroPatient, which defined as any patient in ulterus.  When talking about human patients, these two concepts are really the same concept, and this is what I want to express with owl:equivalentClass.

I can either write  

:GestationalPatient owl:sameAs :InUteroPatient

or

:GestationalPatient owl:equivalentClass :InUteroPatient

But with the owl:sameAs relationship, I can only say these two classes have the same extension, ie, exactly the same members.  I really want to say these two concepts are the same concept, not just happend to have the same members.

We use semantic web reasoners such as euler and cwm, so being OWL-FULL is not a problem for me.

I read the protege-owl tutorial and was expecting to see those owl properties displayed when I checked them all on performance->visibility menu, but didn't see anything.

Kind regards.

Helen




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Answer below...
 
I read these sentences, of your previous response, without giving a break in between… I didn’t see that these sentences were answers for two different questions… so I was expecting to see this ‘equivalentTo’ display in the class hierarchy after going to the OWL menu and select preferences ;)
 
Ahh sorry for the confusion!
 
What I meant with with OWL Properties is, when you go to the OWL menu, then select Preferences, and then select the Visibility tab, and here when you can see all of the Annotation Properties selected, but none of the OWL Properties are checked (atleast for me) so what is supposed to happen when we check and uncheck these properties? there is something to do with visibilitiy, so I expected that they show a widget (pane, or panel) or something like that for every kind of property… but the only widget shown is for ‘owl:disjointWith’ in the class editor window… but I don’t know how different is this ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget from the normal Disjoints widget b’cos both are showing the same values…
 
 
I've not really played with or used these preferences so not really sure I'm afraid.
 
John

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[protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

John Goodwin
You mean with equivalentTo you can only say the classes have the same extension? Yes that's true A equivalentTo B does not imply A is the same concept as B. However, as far as machine reasoning goes isn't equivalentTo sufficient? It's perhaps more of user interface issue to state they are the same concept. Could you add some property "sameConceptAs"? So you could say:
 
A equivalentTo B
A -> sameConceptAs some B
B -> sameConceptAs some A
sameConceptAs is transitive and symmetric
 
Would that then capture the require machine semantics, and also the knowledge they are the same concept? Or is that a bit messy?
 
I've never used Euler or CWM...but aren't the semantics for OWL Full hard to define? Might be ok in this case. I know OWL 1.1 allows this sort of punning. To quote:
 

In OWL 1.1 a name (like Person) can be used as both an individual and a class and a property. The computational problems that would arise if this was treated as in RDF are avoided by ensuring that no aspect of the use of the name as an individual has any effect on the meaning of the name as a class. (This treatment is often called punning.)

With the above change, general properties can be placed on names that are used as classes, and there is additional syntactic sugar to allow the placement of property values in class and property axioms, as in Class(Person partial super(Animal) type(MyClass) value(dc:creator peter)) which is syntactic sugar for Class(Person partial) plus Individual(Person super(Animal) type(MyClass) value(dc:creator peter)). (The above example assumes a definition for dc:creator as an individual-valued property.)

 

 
I've never really ventured into OWL full so can't really help too much I'm afraid.
 
John


From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: 14 June 2006 15:15
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: [protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege


Raj and John

Thanks for your reply.  My experience is exactly what Raj described, word for word.

John, here is the reason I want to use owl:equivalentClass:

When trying to map two knowledge bases, I have a concept  :GestationalPatient in OntologyA,  which is defined as any patient from 0 week to the moment of birth.  In OntologyB, I have a concept :InUteroPatient, which defined as any patient in ulterus.  When talking about human patients, these two concepts are really the same concept, and this is what I want to express with owl:equivalentClass.

I can either write  

:GestationalPatient owl:sameAs :InUteroPatient

or

:GestationalPatient owl:equivalentClass :InUteroPatient

But with the owl:sameAs relationship, I can only say these two classes have the same extension, ie, exactly the same members.  I really want to say these two concepts are the same concept, not just happend to have the same members.

We use semantic web reasoners such as euler and cwm, so being OWL-FULL is not a problem for me.

I read the protege-owl tutorial and was expecting to see those owl properties displayed when I checked them all on performance->visibility menu, but didn't see anything.

Kind regards.

Helen




"John Goodwin" <[hidden email]>
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06/14/2006 07:56 AM

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Answer below...
 
I read these sentences, of your previous response, without giving a break in between… I didn’t see that these sentences were answers for two different questions… so I was expecting to see this ‘equivalentTo’ display in the class hierarchy after going to the OWL menu and select preferences ;)
 
Ahh sorry for the confusion!
 
What I meant with with OWL Properties is, when you go to the OWL menu, then select Preferences, and then select the Visibility tab, and here when you can see all of the Annotation Properties selected, but none of the OWL Properties are checked (atleast for me) so what is supposed to happen when we check and uncheck these properties? there is something to do with visibilitiy, so I expected that they show a widget (pane, or panel) or something like that for every kind of property… but the only widget shown is for ‘owl:disjointWith’ in the class editor window… but I don’t know how different is this ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget from the normal Disjoints widget b’cos both are showing the same values…
 
 
I've not really played with or used these preferences so not really sure I'm afraid.
 
John

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Tel: 023 8079 2000
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[protege-owl] Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

helen.chen
In reply to this post by Hugo Ferreira

Hi, Hugo

Thanks for your help.  It did the trick!

Now I understand why we don't see owl:equivalentClass property on the preferences menu.

What I've done are the following:

1. declare class A is a subclass of class B
2. in class B's "Asserted Conditions" window, drag/drop the class A from "necessary condition panel" to "necessary & sufficient condition" panel.  Immediately, I can see the "equivalent" sign in front of both class A and B.

In owl file, I now get:

<owl:Class rdf:about="#InUteroPatient">
    <owl:equivalentClass>
      <owl:Class rdf:about="#GestationalPatient"/>
    </owl:equivalentClass>
  </owl:Class>

Kind regards.

Helen



Hugo Ferreira <[hidden email]>
Sent by: [hidden email]

06/14/2006 06:01 AM

Please respond to
[hidden email]

To
[hidden email]
cc
Subject
[protege-owl] Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege






Hi Raj,

Mudunuri, Raj wrote:
> Hi John,
>
>  
>
> Which version of Protege are you using? B’cos, in my Protégé (3.2 beta
> build 318) I don’t see this ‘equivalentTo’ display anywhere… in the
> OWL-Preferences-Visibility tab there is ‘sameAs’ option in OWL
> Properties, but I cudn’t find the ‘equivalentTo’ option anwhere…
>

To make two classes equivalent you must make the inheritance
relationship necessary and sufficient. This can be done by dragging
the parent class in the necessary only section to the necessary and
sufficient section (just above it).

HTHs,
Hugo F.


>  
>
> By the way, when we check this box what shud happen? I was expecting
> that there will be these widgets for all of these properties when we
> check them, but I cud see only one for ‘owl:disjointWith’ but not for
> the rest of the OWL Properties!
>
>  
>
> Again, when I uncheck all of these properties, then the
> ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget should disappear, right? But it doesn’t! Is
> this a program bug?
>
>  
>
> Cheers,
>
> Raj
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Von:* [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] *Im Auftrag von *John
> Goodwin
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2006 07:34
> *An:* [hidden email]
> *Betreff:* RE: [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and
> express owl:sameAs in Protege
>
>  
>
> Helen,
>
>  
>
> Go to the OWL menu then select preferences.
>
>  
>
> You will see equivalentTo display in the class hierarchy, but no idea
> about sameAs as I tend to stick to OWL DL. Out of curiousity why do you
> want A sameAs B as opposed to A equivalentTo B? What are you trying to
> achieve with this?
>
>  
>
> John
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* [hidden email] on behalf of
> [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Tue 13/06/2006 22:35
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Subject:* [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express
> owl:sameAs in Protege
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> When opening an new protege project, I selected "OWL-DL" as the language
> profile.  
>
> Later, I realize there is a real need to express the equivalence of two
> concepts at the class level, as the following:
>
> :A  owl:sameAs :B
>
> where both :A and :B are classes.   I am aware that this makes my
> ontology OWL-FULL, which is OK for my purpose.
>
> Question1 :
> Do I need to instruct the project to handle "OWL-FULL" at this point?
>  If yes, where do I change it?
>
> Question2:
> On the class tab, I don't know how to make "owl:sameAs" or
> "owl:quivalentClass" properties visible, in the same way as
> "owl:disjointWith" is displayed.
>
>  
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Helen.
>

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[protege-owl] AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

Rajverma
In reply to this post by helen.chen

Aaah Helen,

 

You made us explore the possibilites of using airplane to cross the street ;)

 

Raj

 


Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von [hidden email]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2006 16:54
An: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Betreff: [protege-owl] Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

 


Hi, Hugo

Thanks for your help.  It did the trick!

Now I understand why we don't see owl:equivalentClass property on the preferences menu.

What I've done are the following:

1. declare class A is a subclass of class B
2. in class B's "Asserted Conditions" window, drag/drop the class A from "necessary condition panel" to "necessary & sufficient condition" panel.  Immediately, I can see the "equivalent" sign in front of both class A and B.

In owl file, I now get:

<owl:Class rdf:about="#InUteroPatient">
    <owl:equivalentClass>
      <owl:Class rdf:about="#GestationalPatient"/>
    </owl:equivalentClass>
  </owl:Class>

Kind regards.

Helen


Hugo Ferreira <[hidden email]>
Sent by: [hidden email]

06/14/2006 06:01 AM

Please respond to
[hidden email]

To

[hidden email]

cc

 

Subject

[protege-owl] Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

 

 

 





Hi Raj,

Mudunuri, Raj wrote:
> Hi John,
>
>  
>
> Which version of Protege are you using? B’cos, in my Protégé (3.2 beta
> build 318) I don’t see this ‘equivalentTo’ display anywhere… in the
> OWL-Preferences-Visibility tab there is ‘sameAs’ option in OWL
> Properties, but I cudn’t find the ‘equivalentTo’ option anwhere…
>

To make two classes equivalent you must make the inheritance
relationship necessary and sufficient. This can be done by dragging
the parent class in the necessary only section to the necessary and
sufficient section (just above it).

HTHs,
Hugo F.


>  
>
> By the way, when we check this box what shud happen? I was expecting
> that there will be these widgets for all of these properties when we
> check them, but I cud see only one for ‘owl:disjointWith’ but not for
> the rest of the OWL Properties!
>
>  
>
> Again, when I uncheck all of these properties, then the
> ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget should disappear, right? But it doesn’t! Is
> this a program bug?
>
>  
>
> Cheers,
>
> Raj
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Von:* [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] *Im Auftrag von *John
> Goodwin
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2006 07:34
> *An:* [hidden email]
> *Betreff:* RE: [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and
> express owl:sameAs in Protege
>
>  
>
> Helen,
>
>  
>
> Go to the OWL menu then select preferences.
>
>  
>
> You will see equivalentTo display in the class hierarchy, but no idea
> about sameAs as I tend to stick to OWL DL. Out of curiousity why do you
> want A sameAs B as opposed to A equivalentTo B? What are you trying to
> achieve with this?
>
>  
>
> John
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* [hidden email] on behalf of
> [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Tue 13/06/2006 22:35
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Subject:* [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express
> owl:sameAs in Protege
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> When opening an new protege project, I selected "OWL-DL" as the language
> profile.  
>
> Later, I realize there is a real need to express the equivalence of two
> concepts at the class level, as the following:
>
> :A  owl:sameAs :B
>
> where both :A and :B are classes.   I am aware that this makes my
> ontology OWL-FULL, which is OK for my purpose.
>
> Question1 :
> Do I need to instruct the project to handle "OWL-FULL" at this point?
>  If yes, where do I change it?
>
> Question2:
> On the class tab, I don't know how to make "owl:sameAs" or
> "owl:quivalentClass" properties visible, in the same way as
> "owl:disjointWith" is displayed.
>
>  
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Helen.
>

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[protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

helen.chen

Hi, Raj

The menu never said this is how you get to define owl:equivalentClass :)

Via this discussion, I also found my misunderstanding of owl:sameAs and owl:equivalentCalss.  

Simply put, owl:sameAs is used to state two uris are the same, x=y, which means the concept X is exactly the same as concept Y.

The property owl:equivalentClass is used to state two classes have the same extension (membership), but not necessarily the same concepts (i.e uri)
 
Hope you at least enjoyed a bit of your airplane ride this time.

Warm regards.

Helen




"Mudunuri, Raj" <[hidden email]>
Sent by: [hidden email]

06/14/2006 11:58 AM

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[protege-owl] AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege






Aaah Helen,
 
You made us explore the possibilites of using airplane to cross the street ;)
 
Raj
 



Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von [hidden email]
Gesendet:
Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2006 16:54
An:
[hidden email]
Cc:
[hidden email]
Betreff:
[protege-owl] Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

 

Hi, Hugo


Thanks for your help.  It did the trick!


Now I understand why we don't see owl:equivalentClass property on the preferences menu.


What I've done are the following:


1. declare class A is a subclass of class B

2. in class B's "Asserted Conditions" window, drag/drop the class A from "necessary condition panel" to "necessary & sufficient condition" panel.  Immediately, I can see the "equivalent" sign in front of both class A and B.


In owl file, I now get:


<owl:Class rdf:about="#InUteroPatient">

   <owl:equivalentClass>

     <owl:Class rdf:about="#GestationalPatient"/>

   </owl:equivalentClass>

 </owl:Class>


Kind regards.


Helen


Hugo Ferreira <[hidden email]>
Sent by: [hidden email]

06/14/2006 06:01 AM


Please respond to
[hidden email]


To
[hidden email]
cc
 
Subject
[protege-owl] Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

 


   






Hi Raj,

Mudunuri, Raj wrote:
> Hi John,
>
>  
>
> Which version of Protege are you using? B’cos, in my Protégé (3.2 beta
> build 318) I don’t see this ‘equivalentTo’ display anywhere… in the
> OWL-Preferences-Visibility tab there is ‘sameAs’ option in OWL
> Properties, but I cudn’t find the ‘equivalentTo’ option anwhere…
>

To make two classes equivalent you must make the inheritance
relationship necessary and sufficient. This can be done by dragging
the parent class in the necessary only section to the necessary and
sufficient section (just above it).

HTHs,
Hugo F.


>  
>
> By the way, when we check this box what shud happen? I was expecting
> that there will be these widgets for all of these properties when we
> check them, but I cud see only one for ‘owl:disjointWith’ but not for
> the rest of the OWL Properties!
>
>  
>
> Again, when I uncheck all of these properties, then the
> ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget should disappear, right? But it doesn’t! Is
> this a program bug?
>
>  
>
> Cheers,
>
> Raj
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Von:* [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] *Im Auftrag von *John
> Goodwin
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2006 07:34
> *An:* [hidden email]
> *Betreff:* RE: [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and
> express owl:sameAs in Protege
>
>  
>
> Helen,
>
>  
>
> Go to the OWL menu then select preferences.
>
>  
>
> You will see equivalentTo display in the class hierarchy, but no idea
> about sameAs as I tend to stick to OWL DL. Out of curiousity why do you
> want A sameAs B as opposed to A equivalentTo B? What are you trying to
> achieve with this?
>
>  
>
> John
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* [hidden email] on behalf of
> [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Tue 13/06/2006 22:35
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Subject:* [protege-owl] Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express
> owl:sameAs in Protege
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> When opening an new protege project, I selected "OWL-DL" as the language
> profile.  
>
> Later, I realize there is a real need to express the equivalence of two
> concepts at the class level, as the following:
>
> :A  owl:sameAs :B
>
> where both :A and :B are classes.   I am aware that this makes my
> ontology OWL-FULL, which is OK for my purpose.
>
> Question1 :
> Do I need to instruct the project to handle "OWL-FULL" at this point?
>  If yes, where do I change it?
>
> Question2:
> On the class tab, I don't know how to make "owl:sameAs" or
> "owl:quivalentClass" properties visible, in the same way as
> "owl:disjointWith" is displayed.
>
>  
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Helen.
>

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[protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

helen.chen
In reply to this post by John Goodwin

Hi, John

Yes, with this triple:

:A owl:equivalentClass :B

You are only saying the extension of class :A and :B are the same, i.e. class A and class B have same members.  It is perfectly fine to say

:A owl:equivalentClass :B.
:A owl:differentFrom :B.

This is because although :A and :B have the same membership, they are really two different concepts.

Therefore, given

{:A  :somePropertyP :C.
:B :somePropertyQ :D.
:A owl:equivalentClass :B.}

an owl reasoner can not entail

{:A :somePropertyQ :D.
:B :somePropertyP :C}.

But when you say:

:A owl:sameAs :B.

This means :A and :B are really the same thing (uri).   So if :A and :B are classes, all members of class A are also members of class B, and vice versa.

Furthermore, given:

{:A  :somePropertyP :C.
:B :somePropertyQ :D.
:A owl:sameAs :B.}

an owl reason can entail:

{:A :somePropertyQ :D.
:B :somePropertyP :C}.

I have just learnt the above difference from Jos De Roo today.  Hope this helps :)

Kind regards.

Helen




"John Goodwin" <[hidden email]>
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06/14/2006 10:49 AM

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<[hidden email]>
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[protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege






You mean with equivalentTo you can only say the classes have the same extension? Yes that's true A equivalentTo B does not imply A is the same concept as B. However, as far as machine reasoning goes isn't equivalentTo sufficient? It's perhaps more of user interface issue to state they are the same concept. Could you add some property "sameConceptAs"? So you could say:
 
A equivalentTo B
A -> sameConceptAs some B
B -> sameConceptAs some A
sameConceptAs is transitive and symmetric
 
Would that then capture the require machine semantics, and also the knowledge they are the same concept? Or is that a bit messy?
 
I've never used Euler or CWM...but aren't the semantics for OWL Full hard to define? Might be ok in this case. I know OWL 1.1 allows this sort of punning. To quote:
 

In OWL 1.1 a name (like Person) can be used as both an individual and a class and a property. The computational problems that would arise if this was treated as in RDF are avoided by ensuring that no aspect of the use of the name as an individual has any effect on the meaning of the name as a class. (This treatment is often called punning.)

With the above change, general properties can be placed on names that are used as classes, and there is additional syntactic sugar to allow the placement of property values in class and property axioms, as in Class(Person partial super(Animal) type(MyClass) value(dc:creator peter)) which is syntactic sugar for Class(Person partial) plus Individual(Person super(Animal) type(MyClass) value(dc:creator peter)). (The above example assumes a definition for dc:creator as an individual-valued property.)

 

From http://www-db.research.bell-labs.com/user/pfps/owl/overview.html
 
I've never really ventured into OWL full so can't really help too much I'm afraid.
 
John


From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent:
14 June 2006 15:15
To:
[hidden email]
Cc:
[hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject:
[protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege



Raj and John


Thanks for your reply.  My experience is exactly what Raj described, word for word.


John, here is the reason I want to use owl:equivalentClass:


When trying to map two knowledge bases, I have a concept  :GestationalPatient in OntologyA,  which is defined as any patient from 0 week to the moment of birth.  In OntologyB, I have a concept :InUteroPatient, which defined as any patient in ulterus.  When talking about human patients, these two concepts are really the same concept, and this is what I want to express with owl:equivalentClass.


I can either write  


:GestationalPatient owl:sameAs :InUteroPatient


or


:GestationalPatient owl:equivalentClass :InUteroPatient


But with the owl:sameAs relationship, I can only say these two classes have the same extension, ie, exactly the same members.  I really want to say these two concepts are the same concept, not just happend to have the same members.


We use semantic web reasoners such as euler and cwm, so being OWL-FULL is not a problem for me.


I read the protege-owl tutorial and was expecting to see those owl properties displayed when I checked them all on performance->visibility menu, but didn't see anything.


Kind regards.


Helen




"John Goodwin" <[hidden email]>
Sent by: [hidden email]

06/14/2006 07:56 AM

Please respond to
[hidden email]


To
<[hidden email]>
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Subject
[protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege








Answer below...

 
I read these sentences, of your previous response, without giving a break in between… I didn’t see that these sentences were answers for two different questions… so I was expecting to see this ‘equivalentTo’ display in the class hierarchy after going to the OWL menu and select preferences ;)

 
Ahh sorry for the confusion!

 
What I meant with with OWL Properties is, when you go to the OWL menu, then select Preferences, and then select the Visibility tab, and here when you can see all of the Annotation Properties selected, but none of the OWL Properties are checked (atleast for me) so what is supposed to happen when we check and uncheck these properties? there is something to do with visibilitiy, so I expected that they show a widget (pane, or panel) or something like that for every kind of property… but the only widget shown is for ‘owl:disjointWith’ in the class editor window… but I don’t know how different is this ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget from the normal Disjoints widget b’cos both are showing the same values…

 
 
I've not really played with or used these preferences so not really sure I'm afraid.

 
John

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[protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

John Goodwin
Hi Helen,
 
I guess buried in my ramble below was a question about whether A equivalentTo B was sufficient for your application or whether you wanted some way to show a (human) user that A and B were the same concepts (which of course "equivalentTo" doesn't imply). If you see what I mean??
 
John
 


From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: 14 June 2006 20:56
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: [protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege


Hi, John

Yes, with this triple:

:A owl:equivalentClass :B

You are only saying the extension of class :A and :B are the same, i.e. class A and class B have same members.  It is perfectly fine to say

:A owl:equivalentClass :B.
:A owl:differentFrom :B.

This is because although :A and :B have the same membership, they are really two different concepts.

Therefore, given

{:A  :somePropertyP :C.
:B :somePropertyQ :D.
:A owl:equivalentClass :B.}

an owl reasoner can not entail

{:A :somePropertyQ :D.
:B :somePropertyP :C}.

But when you say:

:A owl:sameAs :B.

This means :A and :B are really the same thing (uri).   So if :A and :B are classes, all members of class A are also members of class B, and vice versa.

Furthermore, given:

{:A  :somePropertyP :C.
:B :somePropertyQ :D.
:A owl:sameAs :B.}

an owl reason can entail:

{:A :somePropertyQ :D.
:B :somePropertyP :C}.

I have just learnt the above difference from Jos De Roo today.  Hope this helps :)

Kind regards.

Helen




"John Goodwin" <[hidden email]>
Sent by: [hidden email]

06/14/2006 10:49 AM

Please respond to
[hidden email]

To
<[hidden email]>
cc
Subject
[protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege






You mean with equivalentTo you can only say the classes have the same extension? Yes that's true A equivalentTo B does not imply A is the same concept as B. However, as far as machine reasoning goes isn't equivalentTo sufficient? It's perhaps more of user interface issue to state they are the same concept. Could you add some property "sameConceptAs"? So you could say:
 
A equivalentTo B
A -> sameConceptAs some B
B -> sameConceptAs some A
sameConceptAs is transitive and symmetric
 
Would that then capture the require machine semantics, and also the knowledge they are the same concept? Or is that a bit messy?
 
I've never used Euler or CWM...but aren't the semantics for OWL Full hard to define? Might be ok in this case. I know OWL 1.1 allows this sort of punning. To quote:
 

In OWL 1.1 a name (like Person) can be used as both an individual and a class and a property. The computational problems that would arise if this was treated as in RDF are avoided by ensuring that no aspect of the use of the name as an individual has any effect on the meaning of the name as a class. (This treatment is often called punning.)

With the above change, general properties can be placed on names that are used as classes, and there is additional syntactic sugar to allow the placement of property values in class and property axioms, as in Class(Person partial super(Animal) type(MyClass) value(dc:creator peter)) which is syntactic sugar for Class(Person partial) plus Individual(Person super(Animal) type(MyClass) value(dc:creator peter)). (The above example assumes a definition for dc:creator as an individual-valued property.)

From http://www-db.research.bell-labs.com/user/pfps/owl/overview.html
 
I've never really ventured into OWL full so can't really help too much I'm afraid.
 
John


From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent:
14 June 2006 15:15
To:
[hidden email]
Cc:
[hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject:
[protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege



Raj and John


Thanks for your reply.  My experience is exactly what Raj described, word for word.


John, here is the reason I want to use owl:equivalentClass:


When trying to map two knowledge bases, I have a concept  :GestationalPatient in OntologyA,  which is defined as any patient from 0 week to the moment of birth.  In OntologyB, I have a concept :InUteroPatient, which defined as any patient in ulterus.  When talking about human patients, these two concepts are really the same concept, and this is what I want to express with owl:equivalentClass.


I can either write  


:GestationalPatient owl:sameAs :InUteroPatient


or


:GestationalPatient owl:equivalentClass :InUteroPatient


But with the owl:sameAs relationship, I can only say these two classes have the same extension, ie, exactly the same members.  I really want to say these two concepts are the same concept, not just happend to have the same members.


We use semantic web reasoners such as euler and cwm, so being OWL-FULL is not a problem for me.


I read the protege-owl tutorial and was expecting to see those owl properties displayed when I checked them all on performance->visibility menu, but didn't see anything.


Kind regards.


Helen




"John Goodwin" <[hidden email]>
Sent by: [hidden email]

06/14/2006 07:56 AM

Please respond to
[hidden email]


To
<[hidden email]>
cc
Subject
[protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege








Answer below...

 
I read these sentences, of your previous response, without giving a break in between… I didn’t see that these sentences were answers for two different questions… so I was expecting to see this ‘equivalentTo’ display in the class hierarchy after going to the OWL menu and select preferences ;)

 
Ahh sorry for the confusion!

 
What I meant with with OWL Properties is, when you go to the OWL menu, then select Preferences, and then select the Visibility tab, and here when you can see all of the Annotation Properties selected, but none of the OWL Properties are checked (atleast for me) so what is supposed to happen when we check and uncheck these properties? there is something to do with visibilitiy, so I expected that they show a widget (pane, or panel) or something like that for every kind of property… but the only widget shown is for ‘owl:disjointWith’ in the class editor window… but I don’t know how different is this ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget from the normal Disjoints widget b’cos both are showing the same values…

 
 
I've not really played with or used these preferences so not really sure I'm afraid.

 
John

.


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Southampton SO16 4GU
Tel: 023 8079 2000
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Ordnance Survey
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Southampton SO16 4GU
Tel: 023 8079 2000
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[protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

Hai Wang
In reply to this post by helen.chen
Hi Helen,
I totally agree with what you said about the difference between  
owl:equivalentClass and owl:sameAs. However, one thing I am not so  
sure is that you said:
*****
{:A  :somePropertyP :C.
:B :somePropertyQ :D.
:A owl:equivalentClass :B.}

an owl reasoner can not entail

{:A :somePropertyQ :D.
:B :somePropertyP :C}.
*******

If I am right, since class A and B have same instances, the inference  
could be made.
For example, the above model says that
1. any instances of A will have a value for the property P from the  
class C
2. A and B have exactly same set of instances,
Therefore, we can same that any instances of B will have a value for  
property P from the class C as well, which means that  
{:B :somePropertyP :C}.

If fact, if we created a class "F =  p some C", and run classifier.  
Both A and B will be classified as the subclasses of F.


Regards
Hai




On 14 Jun 2006, at 20:56, [hidden email] wrote:

>
> Hi, John
>
> Yes, with this triple:
>
> :A owl:equivalentClass :B
>
> You are only saying the extension of class :A and :B are the same,  
> i.e. class A and class B have same members.  It is perfectly fine  
> to say
>
> :A owl:equivalentClass :B.
> :A owl:differentFrom :B.
>
> This is because although :A and :B have the same membership, they  
> are really two different concepts.
>
> Therefore, given
>
> {:A  :somePropertyP :C.
> :B :somePropertyQ :D.
> :A owl:equivalentClass :B.}
>
> an owl reasoner can not entail
>
> {:A :somePropertyQ :D.
> :B :somePropertyP :C}.
>
> But when you say:
>
> :A owl:sameAs :B.
>
> This means :A and :B are really the same thing (uri).   So if :A  
> and :B are classes, all members of class A are also members of  
> class B, and vice versa.
>
> Furthermore, given:
>
> {:A  :somePropertyP :C.
> :B :somePropertyQ :D.
> :A owl:sameAs :B.}
>
> an owl reason can entail:
>
> {:A :somePropertyQ :D.
> :B :somePropertyP :C}.
>
> I have just learnt the above difference from Jos De Roo today.  
> Hope this helps :)
>
> Kind regards.
>
> Helen
>
>
>
>
> "John Goodwin" <[hidden email]>
> Sent by: [hidden email]
> 06/14/2006 10:49 AM
> Please respond to
> [hidden email]
>
>
> To
> <[hidden email]>
> cc
> Subject
> [protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and  
> express owl:sameAs in Protege
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You mean with equivalentTo you can only say the classes have the  
> same extension? Yes that's true A equivalentTo B does not imply A  
> is the same concept as B. However, as far as machine reasoning goes  
> isn't equivalentTo sufficient? It's perhaps more of user interface  
> issue to state they are the same concept. Could you add some  
> property "sameConceptAs"? So you could say:
>
> A equivalentTo B
> A -> sameConceptAs some B
> B -> sameConceptAs some A
> sameConceptAs is transitive and symmetric
>
> Would that then capture the require machine semantics, and also the  
> knowledge they are the same concept? Or is that a bit messy?
>
> I've never used Euler or CWM...but aren't the semantics for OWL  
> Full hard to define? Might be ok in this case. I know OWL 1.1  
> allows this sort of punning. To quote:
>
> In OWL 1.1 a name (like Person) can be used as both an individual  
> and a class and a property. The computational problems that would  
> arise if this was treated as in RDF are avoided by ensuring that no  
> aspect of the use of the name as an individual has any effect on  
> the meaning of the name as a class. (This treatment is often called  
> punning.)
>
> With the above change, general properties can be placed on names  
> that are used as classes, and there is additional syntactic sugar  
> to allow the placement of property values in class and property  
> axioms, as in Class(Person partial super(Animal) type(MyClass) value
> (dc:creator peter)) which is syntactic sugar for Class(Person  
> partial) plus Individual(Person super(Animal) type(MyClass) value
> (dc:creator peter)). (The above example assumes a definition for  
> dc:creator as an individual-valued property.)
>
>
> From http://www-db.research.bell-labs.com/user/pfps/owl/overview.html
>
> I've never really ventured into OWL full so can't really help too  
> much I'm afraid.
>
> John
>
>
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:protege-owl-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
> Sent: 14 June 2006 15:15
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]; protege-owl-bounce@crg-
> gw.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: [protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during  
> editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege
>
>
> Raj and John
>
> Thanks for your reply.  My experience is exactly what Raj  
> described, word for word.
>
> John, here is the reason I want to use owl:equivalentClass:
>
> When trying to map two knowledge bases, I have a  
> concept  :GestationalPatient in OntologyA,  which is defined as any  
> patient from 0 week to the moment of birth.  In OntologyB, I have a  
> concept :InUteroPatient, which defined as any patient in ulterus.  
> When talking about human patients, these two concepts are really  
> the same concept, and this is what I want to express with  
> owl:equivalentClass.
>
> I can either write
>
> :GestationalPatient owl:sameAs :InUteroPatient
>
> or
>
> :GestationalPatient owl:equivalentClass :InUteroPatient
>
> But with the owl:sameAs relationship, I can only say these two  
> classes have the same extension, ie, exactly the same members.  I  
> really want to say these two concepts are the same concept, not  
> just happend to have the same members.
>
> We use semantic web reasoners such as euler and cwm, so being OWL-
> FULL is not a problem for me.
>
> I read the protege-owl tutorial and was expecting to see those owl  
> properties displayed when I checked them all on performance-
> >visibility menu, but didn't see anything.
>
> Kind regards.
>
> Helen
>
>
>
> "John Goodwin" <[hidden email]>
> Sent by: [hidden email]
> 06/14/2006 07:56 AM
> Please respond to
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
> To
> <[hidden email]>
> cc
> Subject
> [protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and  
> express owl:sameAs in Protege
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Answer below...
>
> I read these sentences, of your previous response, without giving a  
> break in between… I didn’t see that these sentences were answers  
> for two different questions… so I was expecting to see this  
> ‘equivalentTo’ display in the class hierarchy after going to the  
> OWL menu and select preferences ;)
>
> Ahh sorry for the confusion!
>
> What I meant with with OWL Properties is, when you go to the OWL  
> menu, then select Preferences, and then select the Visibility tab,  
> and here when you can see all of the Annotation Properties  
> selected, but none of the OWL Properties are checked (atleast for  
> me) so what is supposed to happen when we check and uncheck these  
> properties? there is something to do with visibilitiy, so I  
> expected that they show a widget (pane, or panel) or something like  
> that for every kind of property… but the only widget shown is  
> for ‘owl:disjointWith’ in the class editor window… but I  
> don’t know how different is this ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget  
> from the normal Disjoints widget b’cos both are showing the same  
> values…
>
>
> I've not really played with or used these preferences so not really  
> sure I'm afraid.
>
> John
> .
>
>
> This email is only intended for the person to whom it is addressed  
> and may contain confidential information. If you have received this  
> email in error, please notify the sender and delete this email  
> which must not be copied, distributed or disclosed to any other  
> person.
>
> Unless stated otherwise, the contents of this email are personal to  
> the writer and do not represent the official view of Ordnance  
> Survey. Nor can any contract be formed on Ordnance Survey's behalf  
> via email. We reserve the right to monitor emails and attachments  
> without prior notice.
>
> Thank you for your cooperation.
>
> Ordnance Survey
> Romsey Road
> Southampton SO16 4GU
> Tel: 023 8079 2000
> http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk
>
> .
>
>
> This email is only intended for the person to whom it is addressed  
> and may contain confidential information. If you have received this  
> email in error, please notify the sender and delete this email  
> which must not be copied, distributed or disclosed to any other  
> person.
>
> Unless stated otherwise, the contents of this email are personal to  
> the writer and do not represent the official view of Ordnance  
> Survey. Nor can any contract be formed on Ordnance Survey's behalf  
> via email. We reserve the right to monitor emails and attachments  
> without prior notice.
>
> Thank you for your cooperation.
>
> Ordnance Survey
> Romsey Road
> Southampton SO16 4GU
> Tel: 023 8079 2000
> http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk
>
>
>

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[protege-owl] AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

Rajverma
In reply to this post by helen.chen

Hi Helen,

 

I agree with Hai, regarding the equivalent classses… I’m attaching an ontology based on yours and Hai’s explanation…

By the way, did u succeed in using the ‘owl:sameAs’ and ‘owl:differentFrom’ from the protégé GUI? I still don’t know how to use them if I want to say that two classes are different (I know how to do this for individuals, but not for classes)… I don’t know how to use ‘owl:sameAs’ both for individuals and classes…

 

I’m still on my ride, and ofcourse njoyin it ;)

Cheers,

Raj

 

 

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Hai Wang
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. Juni 2006 12:56
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: [protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

 

Hi Helen,

I totally agree with what you said about the difference between 

owl:equivalentClass and owl:sameAs. However, one thing I am not so 

sure is that you said:

*****

{:A  :somePropertyP :C.

:B :somePropertyQ :D.

:A owl:equivalentClass :B.}

 

an owl reasoner can not entail

 

{:A :somePropertyQ :D.

:B :somePropertyP :C}.

*******

 

If I am right, since class A and B have same instances, the inference 

could be made.

For example, the above model says that

1. any instances of A will have a value for the property P from the 

class C

2. A and B have exactly same set of instances,

Therefore, we can same that any instances of B will have a value for 

property P from the class C as well, which means that 

{:B :somePropertyP :C}.

 

If fact, if we created a class "F =  p some C", and run classifier. 

Both A and B will be classified as the subclasses of F.

 

 

Regards

Hai

 

 

 

 

On 14 Jun 2006, at 20:56, [hidden email] wrote:

 

> 

> Hi, John

> 

> Yes, with this triple:

> 

> :A owl:equivalentClass :B

> 

> You are only saying the extension of class :A and :B are the same, 

> i.e. class A and class B have same members.  It is perfectly fine 

> to say

> 

> :A owl:equivalentClass :B.

> :A owl:differentFrom :B.

> 

> This is because although :A and :B have the same membership, they 

> are really two different concepts.

> 

> Therefore, given

> 

> {:A  :somePropertyP :C.

> :B :somePropertyQ :D.

> :A owl:equivalentClass :B.}

> 

> an owl reasoner can not entail

> 

> {:A :somePropertyQ :D.

> :B :somePropertyP :C}.

> 

> But when you say:

> 

> :A owl:sameAs :B.

> 

> This means :A and :B are really the same thing (uri).   So if :A 

> and :B are classes, all members of class A are also members of 

> class B, and vice versa.

> 

> Furthermore, given:

> 

> {:A  :somePropertyP :C.

> :B :somePropertyQ :D.

> :A owl:sameAs :B.}

> 

> an owl reason can entail:

> 

> {:A :somePropertyQ :D.

> :B :somePropertyP :C}.

> 

> I have just learnt the above difference from Jos De Roo today.  

> Hope this helps :)

> 

> Kind regards.

> 

> Helen

> 

> 

> 

> 

> "John Goodwin" <[hidden email]>

> Sent by: [hidden email]

> 06/14/2006 10:49 AM

> Please respond to

> [hidden email]

> 

> 

> To

> <[hidden email]>

> cc

> Subject

> [protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and 

> express owl:sameAs in Protege

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> You mean with equivalentTo you can only say the classes have the 

> same extension? Yes that's true A equivalentTo B does not imply A 

> is the same concept as B. However, as far as machine reasoning goes 

> isn't equivalentTo sufficient? It's perhaps more of user interface 

> issue to state they are the same concept. Could you add some 

> property "sameConceptAs"? So you could say:

> 

> A equivalentTo B

> A -> sameConceptAs some B

> B -> sameConceptAs some A

> sameConceptAs is transitive and symmetric

> 

> Would that then capture the require machine semantics, and also the 

> knowledge they are the same concept? Or is that a bit messy?

> 

> I've never used Euler or CWM...but aren't the semantics for OWL 

> Full hard to define? Might be ok in this case. I know OWL 1.1 

> allows this sort of punning. To quote:

> 

> In OWL 1.1 a name (like Person) can be used as both an individual 

> and a class and a property. The computational problems that would 

> arise if this was treated as in RDF are avoided by ensuring that no 

> aspect of the use of the name as an individual has any effect on 

> the meaning of the name as a class. (This treatment is often called 

> punning.)

> 

> With the above change, general properties can be placed on names 

> that are used as classes, and there is additional syntactic sugar 

> to allow the placement of property values in class and property 

> axioms, as in Class(Person partial super(Animal) type(MyClass) value

> (dc:creator peter)) which is syntactic sugar for Class(Person 

> partial) plus Individual(Person super(Animal) type(MyClass) value

> (dc:creator peter)). (The above example assumes a definition for 

> dc:creator as an individual-valued property.)

> 

> 

> From http://www-db.research.bell-labs.com/user/pfps/owl/overview.html

> 

> I've never really ventured into OWL full so can't really help too 

> much I'm afraid.

> 

> John

> 

> 

> From: [hidden email] [mailto:protege-owl-

> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]

> Sent: 14 June 2006 15:15

> To: [hidden email]

> Cc: [hidden email]; protege-owl-bounce@crg-

> gw.Stanford.EDU

> Subject: [protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during 

> editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

> 

> 

> Raj and John

> 

> Thanks for your reply.  My experience is exactly what Raj 

> described, word for word.

> 

> John, here is the reason I want to use owl:equivalentClass:

> 

> When trying to map two knowledge bases, I have a 

> concept  :GestationalPatient in OntologyA,  which is defined as any 

> patient from 0 week to the moment of birth.  In OntologyB, I have a 

> concept :InUteroPatient, which defined as any patient in ulterus.  

> When talking about human patients, these two concepts are really 

> the same concept, and this is what I want to express with 

> owl:equivalentClass.

> 

> I can either write

> 

> :GestationalPatient owl:sameAs :InUteroPatient

> 

> or

> 

> :GestationalPatient owl:equivalentClass :InUteroPatient

> 

> But with the owl:sameAs relationship, I can only say these two 

> classes have the same extension, ie, exactly the same members.  I 

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[protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

Ulrike Sattler
In reply to this post by Hai Wang

On 15 Jun 2006, at 11:55, Hai Wang wrote:

> Hi Helen,
> I totally agree with what you said about the difference between  
> owl:equivalentClass and owl:sameAs. However, one thing I am not so  
> sure is that you said:
> *****
> {:A  :somePropertyP :C.
> :B :somePropertyQ :D.
> :A owl:equivalentClass :B.}
>
> an owl reasoner can not entail

hm, why should an owl reasoner not be able to infer this?

>
> {:A :somePropertyQ :D.
> :B :somePropertyP :C}.
> *******
>
> If I am right, since class A and B have same instances, the  
> inference could be made.
> For example, the above model says that
> 1. any instances of A will have a value for the property P from the  
> class C
> 2. A and B have exactly same set of instances,
> Therefore, we can same that any instances of B will have a value  
> for property P from the class C as well, which means that  
> {:B :somePropertyP :C}.
>
> If fact, if we created a class "F =  p some C", and run classifier.  
> Both A and B will be classified as the subclasses of F.
>
>
> Regards
> Hai
>
>
>
>
> On 14 Jun 2006, at 20:56, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi, John
>>
>> Yes, with this triple:
>>
>> :A owl:equivalentClass :B
>>
>> You are only saying the extension of class :A and :B are the same,  
>> i.e. class A and class B have same members.  It is perfectly fine  
>> to say
>>
>> :A owl:equivalentClass :B.
>> :A owl:differentFrom :B.
>>
>> This is because although :A and :B have the same membership, they  
>> are really two different concepts.
>>
>> Therefore, given
>>
>> {:A  :somePropertyP :C.
>> :B :somePropertyQ :D.
>> :A owl:equivalentClass :B.}
>>
>> an owl reasoner can not entail
>>
>> {:A :somePropertyQ :D.
>> :B :somePropertyP :C}.
>>
>> But when you say:
>>
>> :A owl:sameAs :B.
>>
>> This means :A and :B are really the same thing (uri).   So if :A  
>> and :B are classes, all members of class A are also members of  
>> class B, and vice versa.
>>
>> Furthermore, given:
>>
>> {:A  :somePropertyP :C.
>> :B :somePropertyQ :D.
>> :A owl:sameAs :B.}
>>
>> an owl reason can entail:
>>
>> {:A :somePropertyQ :D.
>> :B :somePropertyP :C}.
>>
>> I have just learnt the above difference from Jos De Roo today.  
>> Hope this helps :)
>>
>> Kind regards.
>>
>> Helen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "John Goodwin" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent by: [hidden email]
>> 06/14/2006 10:49 AM
>> Please respond to
>> [hidden email]
>>
>>
>> To
>> <[hidden email]>
>> cc
>> Subject
>> [protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing  
>> and express owl:sameAs in Protege
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You mean with equivalentTo you can only say the classes have the  
>> same extension? Yes that's true A equivalentTo B does not imply A  
>> is the same concept as B. However, as far as machine reasoning  
>> goes isn't equivalentTo sufficient? It's perhaps more of user  
>> interface issue to state they are the same concept. Could you add  
>> some property "sameConceptAs"? So you could say:
>>
>> A equivalentTo B
>> A -> sameConceptAs some B
>> B -> sameConceptAs some A
>> sameConceptAs is transitive and symmetric
>>
>> Would that then capture the require machine semantics, and also  
>> the knowledge they are the same concept? Or is that a bit messy?
>>
>> I've never used Euler or CWM...but aren't the semantics for OWL  
>> Full hard to define? Might be ok in this case. I know OWL 1.1  
>> allows this sort of punning. To quote:
>>
>> In OWL 1.1 a name (like Person) can be used as both an individual  
>> and a class and a property. The computational problems that would  
>> arise if this was treated as in RDF are avoided by ensuring that  
>> no aspect of the use of the name as an individual has any effect  
>> on the meaning of the name as a class. (This treatment is often  
>> called punning.)
>>
>> With the above change, general properties can be placed on names  
>> that are used as classes, and there is additional syntactic sugar  
>> to allow the placement of property values in class and property  
>> axioms, as in Class(Person partial super(Animal) type(MyClass)  
>> value(dc:creator peter)) which is syntactic sugar for Class(Person  
>> partial) plus Individual(Person super(Animal) type(MyClass) value
>> (dc:creator peter)). (The above example assumes a definition for  
>> dc:creator as an individual-valued property.)
>>
>>
>> From http://www-db.research.bell-labs.com/user/pfps/owl/overview.html
>>
>> I've never really ventured into OWL full so can't really help too  
>> much I'm afraid.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:protege-owl-
>> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
>> Sent: 14 June 2006 15:15
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Cc: [hidden email]; protege-owl-bounce@crg-
>> gw.Stanford.EDU
>> Subject: [protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during  
>> editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege
>>
>>
>> Raj and John
>>
>> Thanks for your reply.  My experience is exactly what Raj  
>> described, word for word.
>>
>> John, here is the reason I want to use owl:equivalentClass:
>>
>> When trying to map two knowledge bases, I have a  
>> concept  :GestationalPatient in OntologyA,  which is defined as  
>> any patient from 0 week to the moment of birth.  In OntologyB, I  
>> have a concept :InUteroPatient, which defined as any patient in  
>> ulterus.  When talking about human patients, these two concepts  
>> are really the same concept, and this is what I want to express  
>> with owl:equivalentClass.
>>
>> I can either write
>>
>> :GestationalPatient owl:sameAs :InUteroPatient
>>
>> or
>>
>> :GestationalPatient owl:equivalentClass :InUteroPatient
>>
>> But with the owl:sameAs relationship, I can only say these two  
>> classes have the same extension, ie, exactly the same members.  I  
>> really want to say these two concepts are the same concept, not  
>> just happend to have the same members.
>>
>> We use semantic web reasoners such as euler and cwm, so being OWL-
>> FULL is not a problem for me.
>>
>> I read the protege-owl tutorial and was expecting to see those owl  
>> properties displayed when I checked them all on performance-
>> >visibility menu, but didn't see anything.
>>
>> Kind regards.
>>
>> Helen
>>
>>
>>
>> "John Goodwin" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent by: [hidden email]
>> 06/14/2006 07:56 AM
>> Please respond to
>> [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>> To
>> <[hidden email]>
>> cc
>> Subject
>> [protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing  
>> and express owl:sameAs in Protege
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Answer below...
>>
>> I read these sentences, of your previous response, without giving  
>> a break in between… I didn’t see that these sentences were  
>> answers for two different questions… so I was expecting to see  
>> this ‘equivalentTo’ display in the class hierarchy after going  
>> to the OWL menu and select preferences ;)
>>
>> Ahh sorry for the confusion!
>>
>> What I meant with with OWL Properties is, when you go to the OWL  
>> menu, then select Preferences, and then select the Visibility tab,  
>> and here when you can see all of the Annotation Properties  
>> selected, but none of the OWL Properties are checked (atleast for  
>> me) so what is supposed to happen when we check and uncheck these  
>> properties? there is something to do with visibilitiy, so I  
>> expected that they show a widget (pane, or panel) or something  
>> like that for every kind of property… but the only widget shown  
>> is for ‘owl:disjointWith’ in the class editor window… but I  
>> don’t know how different is this ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget  
>> from the normal Disjoints widget b’cos both are showing the same  
>> values…
>>
>>
>> I've not really played with or used these preferences so not  
>> really sure I'm afraid.
>>
>> John
>> .
>>
>>
>> This email is only intended for the person to whom it is addressed  
>> and may contain confidential information. If you have received  
>> this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this  
>> email which must not be copied, distributed or disclosed to any  
>> other person.
>>
>> Unless stated otherwise, the contents of this email are personal  
>> to the writer and do not represent the official view of Ordnance  
>> Survey. Nor can any contract be formed on Ordnance Survey's behalf  
>> via email. We reserve the right to monitor emails and attachments  
>> without prior notice.
>>
>> Thank you for your cooperation.
>>
>> Ordnance Survey
>> Romsey Road
>> Southampton SO16 4GU
>> Tel: 023 8079 2000
>> http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>> This email is only intended for the person to whom it is addressed  
>> and may contain confidential information. If you have received  
>> this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this  
>> email which must not be copied, distributed or disclosed to any  
>> other person.
>>
>> Unless stated otherwise, the contents of this email are personal  
>> to the writer and do not represent the official view of Ordnance  
>> Survey. Nor can any contract be formed on Ordnance Survey's behalf  
>> via email. We reserve the right to monitor emails and attachments  
>> without prior notice.
>>
>> Thank you for your cooperation.
>>
>> Ordnance Survey
>> Romsey Road
>> Southampton SO16 4GU
>> Tel: 023 8079 2000
>> http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> To unsubscribe go to http://protege.stanford.edu/community/ 
> subscribe.html
>

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[protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege

John Goodwin
Isn't the simplest answer...

Given
A p some C
B q some D
A equivalentTo B

A equivalentTo B is the same as:

A subClassOf B
B subClassOf A

Given this

A subclassOf B subclassOf p some D
B subclassOf A subclassOf p some C

Hence

A p some D
B p some C..

John


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Uli Sattler
> Sent: 15 June 2006 13:55
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full
> during editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege
>
>
> On 15 Jun 2006, at 11:55, Hai Wang wrote:
>
> > Hi Helen,
> > I totally agree with what you said about the difference between
> > owl:equivalentClass and owl:sameAs. However, one thing I am not so
> > sure is that you said:
> > *****
> > {:A  :somePropertyP :C.
> > :B :somePropertyQ :D.
> > :A owl:equivalentClass :B.}
> >
> > an owl reasoner can not entail
>
> hm, why should an owl reasoner not be able to infer this?
>
> >
> > {:A :somePropertyQ :D.
> > :B :somePropertyP :C}.
> > *******
> >
> > If I am right, since class A and B have same instances, the
> inference
> > could be made.
> > For example, the above model says that 1. any instances of
> A will have
> > a value for the property P from the class C 2. A and B have exactly
> > same set of instances, Therefore, we can same that any
> instances of B
> > will have a value for property P from the class C as well,
> which means
> > that {:B :somePropertyP :C}.
> >
> > If fact, if we created a class "F =  p some C", and run
> classifier.  
> > Both A and B will be classified as the subclasses of F.
> >
> >
> > Regards
> > Hai
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 14 Jun 2006, at 20:56, [hidden email] wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hi, John
> >>
> >> Yes, with this triple:
> >>
> >> :A owl:equivalentClass :B
> >>
> >> You are only saying the extension of class :A and :B are the same,
> >> i.e. class A and class B have same members.  It is
> perfectly fine to
> >> say
> >>
> >> :A owl:equivalentClass :B.
> >> :A owl:differentFrom :B.
> >>
> >> This is because although :A and :B have the same
> membership, they are
> >> really two different concepts.
> >>
> >> Therefore, given
> >>
> >> {:A  :somePropertyP :C.
> >> :B :somePropertyQ :D.
> >> :A owl:equivalentClass :B.}
> >>
> >> an owl reasoner can not entail
> >>
> >> {:A :somePropertyQ :D.
> >> :B :somePropertyP :C}.
> >>
> >> But when you say:
> >>
> >> :A owl:sameAs :B.
> >>
> >> This means :A and :B are really the same thing (uri).   So if :A  
> >> and :B are classes, all members of class A are also
> members of class
> >> B, and vice versa.
> >>
> >> Furthermore, given:
> >>
> >> {:A  :somePropertyP :C.
> >> :B :somePropertyQ :D.
> >> :A owl:sameAs :B.}
> >>
> >> an owl reason can entail:
> >>
> >> {:A :somePropertyQ :D.
> >> :B :somePropertyP :C}.
> >>
> >> I have just learnt the above difference from Jos De Roo today.  
> >> Hope this helps :)
> >>
> >> Kind regards.
> >>
> >> Helen
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "John Goodwin" <[hidden email]>
> >> Sent by: [hidden email]
> >> 06/14/2006 10:49 AM
> >> Please respond to
> >> [hidden email]
> >>
> >>
> >> To
> >> <[hidden email]>
> >> cc
> >> Subject
> >> [protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during
> editing and
> >> express owl:sameAs in Protege
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You mean with equivalentTo you can only say the classes
> have the same
> >> extension? Yes that's true A equivalentTo B does not imply
> A is the
> >> same concept as B. However, as far as machine reasoning goes isn't
> >> equivalentTo sufficient? It's perhaps more of user
> interface issue to
> >> state they are the same concept. Could you add some property
> >> "sameConceptAs"? So you could say:
> >>
> >> A equivalentTo B
> >> A -> sameConceptAs some B
> >> B -> sameConceptAs some A
> >> sameConceptAs is transitive and symmetric
> >>
> >> Would that then capture the require machine semantics, and
> also the
> >> knowledge they are the same concept? Or is that a bit messy?
> >>
> >> I've never used Euler or CWM...but aren't the semantics
> for OWL Full
> >> hard to define? Might be ok in this case. I know OWL 1.1
> allows this
> >> sort of punning. To quote:
> >>
> >> In OWL 1.1 a name (like Person) can be used as both an
> individual and
> >> a class and a property. The computational problems that
> would arise
> >> if this was treated as in RDF are avoided by ensuring that
> no aspect
> >> of the use of the name as an individual has any effect on
> the meaning
> >> of the name as a class. (This treatment is often called punning.)
> >>
> >> With the above change, general properties can be placed on
> names that
> >> are used as classes, and there is additional syntactic
> sugar to allow
> >> the placement of property values in class and property
> axioms, as in
> >> Class(Person partial super(Animal) type(MyClass) value(dc:creator
> >> peter)) which is syntactic sugar for Class(Person
> >> partial) plus Individual(Person super(Animal) type(MyClass) value
> >> (dc:creator peter)). (The above example assumes a definition for
> >> dc:creator as an individual-valued property.)
> >>
> >>
> >> From
> http://www-db.research.bell-labs.com/user/pfps/owl/overview.html
> >>
> >> I've never really ventured into OWL full so can't really help too
> >> much I'm afraid.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:protege-owl-
> >> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
> >> Sent: 14 June 2006 15:15
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Cc: [hidden email]; protege-owl-bounce@crg-
> >> gw.Stanford.EDU
> >> Subject: [protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during
> >> editing and express owl:sameAs in Protege
> >>
> >>
> >> Raj and John
> >>
> >> Thanks for your reply.  My experience is exactly what Raj
> described,
> >> word for word.
> >>
> >> John, here is the reason I want to use owl:equivalentClass:
> >>
> >> When trying to map two knowledge bases, I have a concept  
> >> :GestationalPatient in OntologyA,  which is defined as any patient
> >> from 0 week to the moment of birth.  In OntologyB, I have
> a concept
> >> :InUteroPatient, which defined as any patient in ulterus.  When
> >> talking about human patients, these two concepts are
> really the same
> >> concept, and this is what I want to express with
> owl:equivalentClass.
> >>
> >> I can either write
> >>
> >> :GestationalPatient owl:sameAs :InUteroPatient
> >>
> >> or
> >>
> >> :GestationalPatient owl:equivalentClass :InUteroPatient
> >>
> >> But with the owl:sameAs relationship, I can only say these two
> >> classes have the same extension, ie, exactly the same members.  I
> >> really want to say these two concepts are the same
> concept, not just
> >> happend to have the same members.
> >>
> >> We use semantic web reasoners such as euler and cwm, so being OWL-
> >> FULL is not a problem for me.
> >>
> >> I read the protege-owl tutorial and was expecting to see those owl
> >> properties displayed when I checked them all on performance-
> >> >visibility menu, but didn't see anything.
> >>
> >> Kind regards.
> >>
> >> Helen
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "John Goodwin" <[hidden email]>
> >> Sent by: [hidden email]
> >> 06/14/2006 07:56 AM
> >> Please respond to
> >> [hidden email]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> To
> >> <[hidden email]>
> >> cc
> >> Subject
> >> [protege-owl] Re: AW: Re: AW: Switch to OWL-Full during
> editing and
> >> express owl:sameAs in Protege
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Answer below...
> >>
> >> I read these sentences, of your previous response, without
> giving a
> >> break in between… I didn’t see that these sentences were
> answers for
> >> two different questions… so I was expecting to see this
> >> ‘equivalentTo’ display in the class hierarchy after going
> to the OWL
> >> menu and select preferences ;)
> >>
> >> Ahh sorry for the confusion!
> >>
> >> What I meant with with OWL Properties is, when you go to the OWL
> >> menu, then select Preferences, and then select the Visibility tab,
> >> and here when you can see all of the Annotation Properties
> selected,
> >> but none of the OWL Properties are checked (atleast for
> >> me) so what is supposed to happen when we check and uncheck these
> >> properties? there is something to do with visibilitiy, so
> I expected
> >> that they show a widget (pane, or panel) or something like
> that for
> >> every kind of property… but the only widget shown is for
> >> ‘owl:disjointWith’ in the class editor window… but I don’t
> know how
> >> different is this ‘owl:disjointWith’ widget from the
> normal Disjoints
> >> widget b’cos both are showing the same values…
> >>
> >>
> >> I've not really played with or used these preferences so
> not really
> >> sure I'm afraid.
> >>
> >> John
> >> .
> >>
> >>
> >> This email is only intended for the person to whom it is addressed
> >> and may contain confidential information. If you have
> received this
> >> email in error, please notify the sender and delete this
> email which
> >> must not be copied, distributed or disclosed to any other person.
> >>
> >> Unless stated otherwise, the contents of this email are
> personal to
> >> the writer and do not represent the official view of
> Ordnance Survey.
> >> Nor can any contract be formed on Ordnance Survey's behalf
> via email.
> >> We reserve the right to monitor emails and attachments
> without prior
> >> notice.
> >>
> >> Thank you for your cooperation.
> >>
> >> Ordnance Survey
> >> Romsey Road
> >> Southampton SO16 4GU
> >> Tel: 023 8079 2000
> >> http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk
> >>
> >> .
> >>
> >>
> >> This email is only intended for the person to whom it is addressed
> >> and may contain confidential information. If you have
> received this
> >> email in error, please notify the sender and delete this
> email which
> >> must not be copied, distributed or disclosed to any other person.
> >>
> >> Unless stated otherwise, the contents of this email are
> personal to
> >> the writer and do not represent the official view of
> Ordnance Survey.
> >> Nor can any contract be formed on Ordnance Survey's behalf
> via email.
> >> We reserve the right to monitor emails and attachments
> without prior
> >> notice.
> >>
> >> Thank you for your cooperation.
> >>
> >> Ordnance Survey
> >> Romsey Road
> >> Southampton SO16 4GU
> >> Tel: 023 8079 2000
> >> http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
> > To unsubscribe go to http://protege.stanford.edu/community/
> > subscribe.html
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> To unsubscribe go to
> http://protege.stanford.edu/community/subscribe.html
>
>
.


This email is only intended for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential information. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this email which must not be copied, distributed or disclosed to any other person.

Unless stated otherwise, the contents of this email are personal to the writer and do not represent the official view of Ordnance Survey. Nor can any contract be formed on Ordnance Survey's behalf via email. We reserve the right to monitor emails and attachments without prior notice.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Ordnance Survey
Romsey Road
Southampton SO16 4GU
Tel: 023 8079 2000
http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk

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